Past participle agreement with the subject in the case of pronominal verbsPas d'accord pour « se rendre compte de » et « se plaire/complaire »Gender and number agreement with past participle
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Past participle agreement with the subject in the case of pronominal verbs
Pas d'accord pour « se rendre compte de » et « se plaire/complaire »Gender and number agreement with past participle
I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :
Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.
The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :
Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.
And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :
"When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.
Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.
Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.
Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."
Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )
Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.
grammaire accord verbes-pronominaux
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
add a comment |
I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :
Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.
The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :
Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.
And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :
"When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.
Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.
Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.
Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."
Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )
Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.
grammaire accord verbes-pronominaux
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
add a comment |
I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :
Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.
The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :
Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.
And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :
"When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.
Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.
Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.
Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."
Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )
Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.
grammaire accord verbes-pronominaux
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
I've been solving exercices in a book called practice makes perfect (linked down below)
And in the Plus-que parfait exercices (page 82,81. 10.2 Exercice. N.3, N.10) there are those two sentences which are really confusing me :
Tu (se demander) ....... s'il était allergique.
Elles (s'écrire) ..... pendant des années.
The answers ,according to the Answer Key, should be (t'etais demandé(e), s'étaient écrites) but I don't understand why there is an agreement here. I thought that reciprocal verbs which take an indirect object its past participle does not agree with the subject. And worth noting also that in the exercices of the Passe Composé there are those two similar sentence which have no agreement (page 63) :
Ils se sont écrit de long lettres.
Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent.
And here's a part of the book explanation for the past participle agreement thing (page 62,63) :
"When reciprocal verbs take an indirect object in French, the past participle does not agree.
Ils se sont téléphoné. They called each other.
Vous vous êtes parlé au téléphone. You talked to each other on the phone.
Ils se sont écrit de longues lettres. They wrote each other long letters."
Book link : ( https://archive.org/details/practice-makes-perfect-complete-french-grammar/page/n94 )
Note : please don't explain in french. My french isn't that advanced yet and it will be super hard to understand it.
grammaire accord verbes-pronominaux
grammaire accord verbes-pronominaux
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
asked May 31 at 14:13
ManarManar
1038
1038
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.
As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.
As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.
Therefore it should be:
Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.
Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
2
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
add a comment |
The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.
The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
1
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
1
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
|
show 3 more comments
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
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oldest
votes
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oldest
votes
You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.
As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.
As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.
Therefore it should be:
Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.
Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
2
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
add a comment |
You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.
As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.
As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.
Therefore it should be:
Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.
Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
2
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
add a comment |
You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.
As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.
As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.
Therefore it should be:
Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.
Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
You are right, there shouldn't be an agreement.
As you can see, both t' and s' are indirect objects here : to whom did you ask etc.? to whom did they write ? etc.
As per the rule you quoted near the end of your post, when reciprocal verbs take an indirect object, the past participle does not agree.
Therefore it should be:
Tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique.
Elles s'étaient écrit pendant des années.
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
answered May 31 at 14:35
mcadorelmcadorel
1,202217
1,202217
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
2
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
add a comment |
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
2
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
That's so strange, I haven't seen any mistakes in that book so far let alone that's not only one but two.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:47
2
2
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
Mistakes happen :) Looks like ils s'étaient trompés.
– mcadorel
May 31 at 14:57
add a comment |
The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.
The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
1
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
1
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
|
show 3 more comments
The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.
The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
1
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
1
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
|
show 3 more comments
The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.
The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
The agreement in the case of "tu étais réveillé(e)" for example depends on the sex of the person who is talking/whose you are talking to (the subject). There is no indirect object here. It is a simple agreement like "tu es intelligente" when you are saying that to a girl.
The agreement in "elles s'étaient écrites pendant des années" (and so "tu t'étais demandé s'il était allergique" is different, because you can say "à qui / à quoi / de qui / …" after the object that means it is an indirect object. And in that case indeed the past participle never agrees, even with "être". As you may know, past participle agrees when "être" but not "avoir" in the case of a direct object.
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
edited May 31 at 21:28
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
answered May 31 at 14:25
purerstamppurerstamp
71919
71919
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
1
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
1
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
|
show 3 more comments
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
1
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
1
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
so what is the difference between those two sentence and why there is an agreement in one of them and not the other even tho they've the same verb (se demander) : Nous nous sommes demandé pourquoi il était absent. Tu t'etais demandé(e) s'il était allergique
– Manar
May 31 at 14:34
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
Shouldn't (se demander) don't agree in the seecond one as I can say : demander à quelqu'un.
– Manar
May 31 at 14:35
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
As you can see in the first one (nous nous sommes demandé...) there is an indirect object with the reflexive pronoun.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 14:41
1
1
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
Oh I'm sorry I just didn't notice that it was in fact se demander as you said in your comment that's why I got confused ! But the rule as explained above is still correct even if it doesn't explicitely respond to your question.. I'm very sorry for that.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 20:54
1
1
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
Yeah because in fact it was my mistake and I was thinking about demander and not se demander. And please don't apologise, it's my fault actually :/ I've just corrected it.
– purerstamp
May 31 at 21:25
|
show 3 more comments
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