Does the Brexit deal have to be agreed by both Houses? The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhat are the roles of the two Houses of Parliament in the UK?Brexit vote passes through The CommonsWhat happens if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal?Brexit: Is a 'No deal' worse than a 'Bad Deal' for the UK, from a strictly economics based argumentIs the Brexit implementation period predicated on a deal with the EU?Brexit deal 'Meaningful vote' battle between House of Lords and House of CommonsVolume of UK law originating in the House of LordsWhat does Nicholas Watt mean that May has “enough tellers for her Brexit vote”?What will happen if Parliament votes “no” on each of the Brexit-related votes to be held on the 12th, 13th and 14th of March?Why didn't Theresa May consult with Parliament before negotiating a deal with the EU?
Go Pregnant or Go Home
How to get regions to plot as graphics
How can I get through very long and very dry, but also very useful technical documents when learning a new tool?
If the heap is initialized for security, then why is the stack uninitialized?
How to make a software documentation "officially" citable?
Implement the Thanos sorting algorithm
What makes a siege story/plot interesting?
Is it my responsibility to learn a new technology in my own time my employer wants to implement?
Unreliable Magic - Is it worth it?
Does the Brexit deal have to be agreed by both Houses?
How do we know the LHC results are robust?
What is the difference between "behavior" and "behaviour"?
Increase performance creating Mandelbrot set in python
Is it okay to store user locations?
What does "Its cash flow is deeply negative" mean?
Describing a person. What needs to be mentioned?
How to use tikz in fbox?
Why does C# sound extremely flat when saxophone is tuned to G?
What does this shorthand mean?
How to write the block matrix in LaTex?
How do scammers retract money, while you can’t?
Can the Reverse Gravity spell affect the Meteor Swarm spell?
What do "high sea" and "carry" mean in this sentence?
What's the point of interval inversion?
Does the Brexit deal have to be agreed by both Houses?
The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhat are the roles of the two Houses of Parliament in the UK?Brexit vote passes through The CommonsWhat happens if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal?Brexit: Is a 'No deal' worse than a 'Bad Deal' for the UK, from a strictly economics based argumentIs the Brexit implementation period predicated on a deal with the EU?Brexit deal 'Meaningful vote' battle between House of Lords and House of CommonsVolume of UK law originating in the House of LordsWhat does Nicholas Watt mean that May has “enough tellers for her Brexit vote”?What will happen if Parliament votes “no” on each of the Brexit-related votes to be held on the 12th, 13th and 14th of March?Why didn't Theresa May consult with Parliament before negotiating a deal with the EU?
Does the "divorce deal" have to be agreed by both the Commons and the Lords? If it does and the Lords reject it, what happens then?
united-kingdom brexit house-of-commons house-of-lords
New contributor
add a comment |
Does the "divorce deal" have to be agreed by both the Commons and the Lords? If it does and the Lords reject it, what happens then?
united-kingdom brexit house-of-commons house-of-lords
New contributor
add a comment |
Does the "divorce deal" have to be agreed by both the Commons and the Lords? If it does and the Lords reject it, what happens then?
united-kingdom brexit house-of-commons house-of-lords
New contributor
Does the "divorce deal" have to be agreed by both the Commons and the Lords? If it does and the Lords reject it, what happens then?
united-kingdom brexit house-of-commons house-of-lords
united-kingdom brexit house-of-commons house-of-lords
New contributor
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
JJJ
5,18422245
5,18422245
New contributor
asked 21 hours ago
SpacePhoenixSpacePhoenix
17815
17815
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
It must. And the House of Commons can basically overrule the House of Lords if the latter gets in its way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords#Legislative_functions
The House of Lords debates legislation, and has power to amend or reject bills. However, the power of the Lords to reject a bill passed by the House of Commons is severely restricted by the Parliament Acts. Under those Acts, certain types of bills may be presented for the Royal Assent without the consent of the House of Lords (i.e. the Commons can override the Lords' veto). The House of Lords cannot delay a money bill (a bill that, in the view of the Speaker of the House of Commons, solely concerns national taxation or public funds) for more than one month.
Other public bills cannot be delayed by the House of Lords for more than two parliamentary sessions, or one calendar year. These provisions, however, only apply to public bills that originate in the House of Commons, and cannot have the effect of extending a parliamentary term beyond five years. A further restriction is a constitutional convention known as the Salisbury Convention, which means that the House of Lords does not oppose legislation promised in the Government's election manifesto.
1
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Denis has given the formal answer, but there is also a political reason why the House of Lords will not block a deal.
The House of Lords is unelected, and the Lords are aware that the existence of their institution is controversial. If, after years of Brexit drama, the House of Commons were to finally pass a Withdrawal Agreement, only to be rejected by the House of Lords, there would be a major uproar, potentially to the level that the existence of the House of Lords may be under threat, but at least to the level that their powers may be severely curtailed further. For that reason alone, for such an important and controversial piece of legislation, the House of Lords will not block it when it has passed the House of Commons. It would be suicidal.
6
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
1
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
20
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
3
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
No. Only the House of Commons needs to agree the deal. The Lords has to debate it, but does not have to vote in favour of it.
The Brexit deal is not legislation, it is an international treaty between the UK and the EU. Therefore the process for bills is irrelevant. That said, following the Brexit deal (if any) there will be legislation needed in order to actually enact the various things it says the UK will do, and that legislation will need to be passed in the usual way. This is why the government and the EU agreed that in the event of the deal being approved, Brexit will be delayed until the 22nd of May. It gives Parliament some time to prevent a harmful legal gap in which what the UK has agreed to do is not actually legislated for. But those votes are to find out whether (and with what details) the UK keeps to its treaty obligations, not to find out whether the UK signs and ratifies the treaty and leaves the EU.
Ordinarily, treaties do not have to be voted for by both Houses, they merely need to not be voted against by either House. You can decide for yourself whether failing to vote against something counts as "agreeing" it. There are various circumstances under which a treaty might never be voted on at all (the most likely being that neither government nor opposition considers it to be worth spending their parliamentary time on, which of course would not apply in this case!). If there's no vote, the treaty is ratified.
However, specifically for the Brexit deal, Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as amended by Grieve's business motion in November 2018) requires that the government places an amendable motion, the so-called "meaningful vote", before the House of Commons, and that the motion is passed by the House of Commons. It also requires that the government places a motion before the House of Lords, but that only has to be debated (on government time), not passed. You might ask what's the point of only requiring it's debated, but basically this is using the Lords in its role as an advisory body. It's up to the Commons to decide whether or not to take note of what the Lords say in their debate. But at the very least, the EU Withdrawal Act means the opposition doesn't need to find time for that debate, because it has to be a government motion.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "475"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
SpacePhoenix is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f39916%2fdoes-the-brexit-deal-have-to-be-agreed-by-both-houses%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
It must. And the House of Commons can basically overrule the House of Lords if the latter gets in its way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords#Legislative_functions
The House of Lords debates legislation, and has power to amend or reject bills. However, the power of the Lords to reject a bill passed by the House of Commons is severely restricted by the Parliament Acts. Under those Acts, certain types of bills may be presented for the Royal Assent without the consent of the House of Lords (i.e. the Commons can override the Lords' veto). The House of Lords cannot delay a money bill (a bill that, in the view of the Speaker of the House of Commons, solely concerns national taxation or public funds) for more than one month.
Other public bills cannot be delayed by the House of Lords for more than two parliamentary sessions, or one calendar year. These provisions, however, only apply to public bills that originate in the House of Commons, and cannot have the effect of extending a parliamentary term beyond five years. A further restriction is a constitutional convention known as the Salisbury Convention, which means that the House of Lords does not oppose legislation promised in the Government's election manifesto.
1
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
add a comment |
It must. And the House of Commons can basically overrule the House of Lords if the latter gets in its way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords#Legislative_functions
The House of Lords debates legislation, and has power to amend or reject bills. However, the power of the Lords to reject a bill passed by the House of Commons is severely restricted by the Parliament Acts. Under those Acts, certain types of bills may be presented for the Royal Assent without the consent of the House of Lords (i.e. the Commons can override the Lords' veto). The House of Lords cannot delay a money bill (a bill that, in the view of the Speaker of the House of Commons, solely concerns national taxation or public funds) for more than one month.
Other public bills cannot be delayed by the House of Lords for more than two parliamentary sessions, or one calendar year. These provisions, however, only apply to public bills that originate in the House of Commons, and cannot have the effect of extending a parliamentary term beyond five years. A further restriction is a constitutional convention known as the Salisbury Convention, which means that the House of Lords does not oppose legislation promised in the Government's election manifesto.
1
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
add a comment |
It must. And the House of Commons can basically overrule the House of Lords if the latter gets in its way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords#Legislative_functions
The House of Lords debates legislation, and has power to amend or reject bills. However, the power of the Lords to reject a bill passed by the House of Commons is severely restricted by the Parliament Acts. Under those Acts, certain types of bills may be presented for the Royal Assent without the consent of the House of Lords (i.e. the Commons can override the Lords' veto). The House of Lords cannot delay a money bill (a bill that, in the view of the Speaker of the House of Commons, solely concerns national taxation or public funds) for more than one month.
Other public bills cannot be delayed by the House of Lords for more than two parliamentary sessions, or one calendar year. These provisions, however, only apply to public bills that originate in the House of Commons, and cannot have the effect of extending a parliamentary term beyond five years. A further restriction is a constitutional convention known as the Salisbury Convention, which means that the House of Lords does not oppose legislation promised in the Government's election manifesto.
It must. And the House of Commons can basically overrule the House of Lords if the latter gets in its way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords#Legislative_functions
The House of Lords debates legislation, and has power to amend or reject bills. However, the power of the Lords to reject a bill passed by the House of Commons is severely restricted by the Parliament Acts. Under those Acts, certain types of bills may be presented for the Royal Assent without the consent of the House of Lords (i.e. the Commons can override the Lords' veto). The House of Lords cannot delay a money bill (a bill that, in the view of the Speaker of the House of Commons, solely concerns national taxation or public funds) for more than one month.
Other public bills cannot be delayed by the House of Lords for more than two parliamentary sessions, or one calendar year. These provisions, however, only apply to public bills that originate in the House of Commons, and cannot have the effect of extending a parliamentary term beyond five years. A further restriction is a constitutional convention known as the Salisbury Convention, which means that the House of Lords does not oppose legislation promised in the Government's election manifesto.
answered 21 hours ago
Denis de BernardyDenis de Bernardy
13.7k33858
13.7k33858
1
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
1
1
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
It might be worth adding (1) that the reason both Houses' approval is needed is because the Withdrawal Agreement requires an Act of Parliament to implement; and (2) why an Act is needed.
– Steve Melnikoff
19 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
In fact an Act isn't needed to ratify the treaty, only to implement whatever the treaty says the UK will do.
– Steve Jessop
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Denis has given the formal answer, but there is also a political reason why the House of Lords will not block a deal.
The House of Lords is unelected, and the Lords are aware that the existence of their institution is controversial. If, after years of Brexit drama, the House of Commons were to finally pass a Withdrawal Agreement, only to be rejected by the House of Lords, there would be a major uproar, potentially to the level that the existence of the House of Lords may be under threat, but at least to the level that their powers may be severely curtailed further. For that reason alone, for such an important and controversial piece of legislation, the House of Lords will not block it when it has passed the House of Commons. It would be suicidal.
6
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
1
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
20
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
3
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Denis has given the formal answer, but there is also a political reason why the House of Lords will not block a deal.
The House of Lords is unelected, and the Lords are aware that the existence of their institution is controversial. If, after years of Brexit drama, the House of Commons were to finally pass a Withdrawal Agreement, only to be rejected by the House of Lords, there would be a major uproar, potentially to the level that the existence of the House of Lords may be under threat, but at least to the level that their powers may be severely curtailed further. For that reason alone, for such an important and controversial piece of legislation, the House of Lords will not block it when it has passed the House of Commons. It would be suicidal.
6
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
1
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
20
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
3
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Denis has given the formal answer, but there is also a political reason why the House of Lords will not block a deal.
The House of Lords is unelected, and the Lords are aware that the existence of their institution is controversial. If, after years of Brexit drama, the House of Commons were to finally pass a Withdrawal Agreement, only to be rejected by the House of Lords, there would be a major uproar, potentially to the level that the existence of the House of Lords may be under threat, but at least to the level that their powers may be severely curtailed further. For that reason alone, for such an important and controversial piece of legislation, the House of Lords will not block it when it has passed the House of Commons. It would be suicidal.
Denis has given the formal answer, but there is also a political reason why the House of Lords will not block a deal.
The House of Lords is unelected, and the Lords are aware that the existence of their institution is controversial. If, after years of Brexit drama, the House of Commons were to finally pass a Withdrawal Agreement, only to be rejected by the House of Lords, there would be a major uproar, potentially to the level that the existence of the House of Lords may be under threat, but at least to the level that their powers may be severely curtailed further. For that reason alone, for such an important and controversial piece of legislation, the House of Lords will not block it when it has passed the House of Commons. It would be suicidal.
answered 20 hours ago
gerritgerrit
20.1k881181
20.1k881181
6
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
1
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
20
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
3
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
6
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
1
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
20
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
3
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
6
6
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
Doesn't that observation make the Lords obsolete anyway? Being a check on the Commons but only if it's not too controversialand they don't upset many people. That's like a military defending a country but only during peace time, if the stakes get too high we won't stabd in anyone's way. (actually reminds me of)
– JJJ
18 hours ago
1
1
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
The House of Lords, which has had a variety of rôles over the centuries, has not been a check on the Commons since 1911, and was not really primarily such before then.
– JdeBP
18 hours ago
20
20
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
@JJJ: no. The Lords' main job these days is to spend more time looking at the detail, and ask the Commons (well, the Government), "are you sure"? Sometimes the Commons will reply with, "ah, I see, that's a good point"; other times it will say, "yes, we're sure". The Lords has more time to scrutinise legislation than the Commons, more expertise in a wide variety of areas, and a lot less politics to get in the way of things. So (IMHO) it still has considerable value.
– Steve Melnikoff
18 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
"It would be suicidal." Isn't the whole thing?
– Azor Ahai
12 hours ago
3
3
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
The Lords gain massively from being unelected - they are not as beholden to the short term whims and vageries of the general populace, and thus can perform a vital checks
– Orangesandlemons
10 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
No. Only the House of Commons needs to agree the deal. The Lords has to debate it, but does not have to vote in favour of it.
The Brexit deal is not legislation, it is an international treaty between the UK and the EU. Therefore the process for bills is irrelevant. That said, following the Brexit deal (if any) there will be legislation needed in order to actually enact the various things it says the UK will do, and that legislation will need to be passed in the usual way. This is why the government and the EU agreed that in the event of the deal being approved, Brexit will be delayed until the 22nd of May. It gives Parliament some time to prevent a harmful legal gap in which what the UK has agreed to do is not actually legislated for. But those votes are to find out whether (and with what details) the UK keeps to its treaty obligations, not to find out whether the UK signs and ratifies the treaty and leaves the EU.
Ordinarily, treaties do not have to be voted for by both Houses, they merely need to not be voted against by either House. You can decide for yourself whether failing to vote against something counts as "agreeing" it. There are various circumstances under which a treaty might never be voted on at all (the most likely being that neither government nor opposition considers it to be worth spending their parliamentary time on, which of course would not apply in this case!). If there's no vote, the treaty is ratified.
However, specifically for the Brexit deal, Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as amended by Grieve's business motion in November 2018) requires that the government places an amendable motion, the so-called "meaningful vote", before the House of Commons, and that the motion is passed by the House of Commons. It also requires that the government places a motion before the House of Lords, but that only has to be debated (on government time), not passed. You might ask what's the point of only requiring it's debated, but basically this is using the Lords in its role as an advisory body. It's up to the Commons to decide whether or not to take note of what the Lords say in their debate. But at the very least, the EU Withdrawal Act means the opposition doesn't need to find time for that debate, because it has to be a government motion.
add a comment |
No. Only the House of Commons needs to agree the deal. The Lords has to debate it, but does not have to vote in favour of it.
The Brexit deal is not legislation, it is an international treaty between the UK and the EU. Therefore the process for bills is irrelevant. That said, following the Brexit deal (if any) there will be legislation needed in order to actually enact the various things it says the UK will do, and that legislation will need to be passed in the usual way. This is why the government and the EU agreed that in the event of the deal being approved, Brexit will be delayed until the 22nd of May. It gives Parliament some time to prevent a harmful legal gap in which what the UK has agreed to do is not actually legislated for. But those votes are to find out whether (and with what details) the UK keeps to its treaty obligations, not to find out whether the UK signs and ratifies the treaty and leaves the EU.
Ordinarily, treaties do not have to be voted for by both Houses, they merely need to not be voted against by either House. You can decide for yourself whether failing to vote against something counts as "agreeing" it. There are various circumstances under which a treaty might never be voted on at all (the most likely being that neither government nor opposition considers it to be worth spending their parliamentary time on, which of course would not apply in this case!). If there's no vote, the treaty is ratified.
However, specifically for the Brexit deal, Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as amended by Grieve's business motion in November 2018) requires that the government places an amendable motion, the so-called "meaningful vote", before the House of Commons, and that the motion is passed by the House of Commons. It also requires that the government places a motion before the House of Lords, but that only has to be debated (on government time), not passed. You might ask what's the point of only requiring it's debated, but basically this is using the Lords in its role as an advisory body. It's up to the Commons to decide whether or not to take note of what the Lords say in their debate. But at the very least, the EU Withdrawal Act means the opposition doesn't need to find time for that debate, because it has to be a government motion.
add a comment |
No. Only the House of Commons needs to agree the deal. The Lords has to debate it, but does not have to vote in favour of it.
The Brexit deal is not legislation, it is an international treaty between the UK and the EU. Therefore the process for bills is irrelevant. That said, following the Brexit deal (if any) there will be legislation needed in order to actually enact the various things it says the UK will do, and that legislation will need to be passed in the usual way. This is why the government and the EU agreed that in the event of the deal being approved, Brexit will be delayed until the 22nd of May. It gives Parliament some time to prevent a harmful legal gap in which what the UK has agreed to do is not actually legislated for. But those votes are to find out whether (and with what details) the UK keeps to its treaty obligations, not to find out whether the UK signs and ratifies the treaty and leaves the EU.
Ordinarily, treaties do not have to be voted for by both Houses, they merely need to not be voted against by either House. You can decide for yourself whether failing to vote against something counts as "agreeing" it. There are various circumstances under which a treaty might never be voted on at all (the most likely being that neither government nor opposition considers it to be worth spending their parliamentary time on, which of course would not apply in this case!). If there's no vote, the treaty is ratified.
However, specifically for the Brexit deal, Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as amended by Grieve's business motion in November 2018) requires that the government places an amendable motion, the so-called "meaningful vote", before the House of Commons, and that the motion is passed by the House of Commons. It also requires that the government places a motion before the House of Lords, but that only has to be debated (on government time), not passed. You might ask what's the point of only requiring it's debated, but basically this is using the Lords in its role as an advisory body. It's up to the Commons to decide whether or not to take note of what the Lords say in their debate. But at the very least, the EU Withdrawal Act means the opposition doesn't need to find time for that debate, because it has to be a government motion.
No. Only the House of Commons needs to agree the deal. The Lords has to debate it, but does not have to vote in favour of it.
The Brexit deal is not legislation, it is an international treaty between the UK and the EU. Therefore the process for bills is irrelevant. That said, following the Brexit deal (if any) there will be legislation needed in order to actually enact the various things it says the UK will do, and that legislation will need to be passed in the usual way. This is why the government and the EU agreed that in the event of the deal being approved, Brexit will be delayed until the 22nd of May. It gives Parliament some time to prevent a harmful legal gap in which what the UK has agreed to do is not actually legislated for. But those votes are to find out whether (and with what details) the UK keeps to its treaty obligations, not to find out whether the UK signs and ratifies the treaty and leaves the EU.
Ordinarily, treaties do not have to be voted for by both Houses, they merely need to not be voted against by either House. You can decide for yourself whether failing to vote against something counts as "agreeing" it. There are various circumstances under which a treaty might never be voted on at all (the most likely being that neither government nor opposition considers it to be worth spending their parliamentary time on, which of course would not apply in this case!). If there's no vote, the treaty is ratified.
However, specifically for the Brexit deal, Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (as amended by Grieve's business motion in November 2018) requires that the government places an amendable motion, the so-called "meaningful vote", before the House of Commons, and that the motion is passed by the House of Commons. It also requires that the government places a motion before the House of Lords, but that only has to be debated (on government time), not passed. You might ask what's the point of only requiring it's debated, but basically this is using the Lords in its role as an advisory body. It's up to the Commons to decide whether or not to take note of what the Lords say in their debate. But at the very least, the EU Withdrawal Act means the opposition doesn't need to find time for that debate, because it has to be a government motion.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
Steve JessopSteve Jessop
65059
65059
add a comment |
add a comment |
SpacePhoenix is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
SpacePhoenix is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
SpacePhoenix is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
SpacePhoenix is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Politics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f39916%2fdoes-the-brexit-deal-have-to-be-agreed-by-both-houses%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown