Do warforged have souls? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Thus spake the Warforged: How do their mouths work?Does a Warforged barbarian never get fatigued?Links between Type, Subtype and Race (and Template)Can a warforged just walk through quicksand?Is a dead creature's body considered an “object”?What are the implications of the UA warforged's “Living Construct” trait?Is the UA Warforged considered to naturally be wearing armor?What happens to a Devil when its alignment is forcibly changed?Were warforged starting ages ever explained?What deity do celestials/aasimars worship?
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Do warforged have souls?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Thus spake the Warforged: How do their mouths work?Does a Warforged barbarian never get fatigued?Links between Type, Subtype and Race (and Template)Can a warforged just walk through quicksand?Is a dead creature's body considered an “object”?What are the implications of the UA warforged's “Living Construct” trait?Is the UA Warforged considered to naturally be wearing armor?What happens to a Devil when its alignment is forcibly changed?Were warforged starting ages ever explained?What deity do celestials/aasimars worship?
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$begingroup$
The 5e Unearthed Arcana Races of Eberron (v1.1) says:
Although they are constructs, they have
much in common with living creatures, including emotions
and social bonds, and perhaps even souls.
This last part troubles me however.
Do warforged canonically have souls?
dnd-5e lore eberron warforged soul
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The 5e Unearthed Arcana Races of Eberron (v1.1) says:
Although they are constructs, they have
much in common with living creatures, including emotions
and social bonds, and perhaps even souls.
This last part troubles me however.
Do warforged canonically have souls?
dnd-5e lore eberron warforged soul
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
To avoid sarcasm, I suspect you want an answer more satisfying than Perhaps, correct?
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
Apr 12 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose Actually, this quote appears to be from the Eberron Unearthed Arcana document for D&D 5e, although the warforged described has been superceded by the newer Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana document.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard ahhh that is the old version of the UA that came out in 2015 no wonder I wasn't finding it. Though that doesn't explain what "page 8 of the B codex" is referring to. That UA document doesn't even have 8 pages...
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:29
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I downloaded this pdf and it’s on page 8.
$endgroup$
– MrHiTech
Apr 12 at 19:07
3
$begingroup$
Ah ok that helps clear that up. Just so you know, that source is put together by a third party so it isn't an official source. They have taken a bunch of UA articles and put them together with graphics into one document. Do note that many of the UA in there are out of date though. In the future you are likely better off going to WotC's site and getting the official docs of whatever you want.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 19:12
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The 5e Unearthed Arcana Races of Eberron (v1.1) says:
Although they are constructs, they have
much in common with living creatures, including emotions
and social bonds, and perhaps even souls.
This last part troubles me however.
Do warforged canonically have souls?
dnd-5e lore eberron warforged soul
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
$endgroup$
The 5e Unearthed Arcana Races of Eberron (v1.1) says:
Although they are constructs, they have
much in common with living creatures, including emotions
and social bonds, and perhaps even souls.
This last part troubles me however.
Do warforged canonically have souls?
dnd-5e lore eberron warforged soul
dnd-5e lore eberron warforged soul
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
edited Apr 12 at 19:13
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
61.9k10297455
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
asked Apr 12 at 17:19
MrHiTechMrHiTech
948324
948324
6
$begingroup$
To avoid sarcasm, I suspect you want an answer more satisfying than Perhaps, correct?
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
Apr 12 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose Actually, this quote appears to be from the Eberron Unearthed Arcana document for D&D 5e, although the warforged described has been superceded by the newer Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana document.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard ahhh that is the old version of the UA that came out in 2015 no wonder I wasn't finding it. Though that doesn't explain what "page 8 of the B codex" is referring to. That UA document doesn't even have 8 pages...
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:29
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I downloaded this pdf and it’s on page 8.
$endgroup$
– MrHiTech
Apr 12 at 19:07
3
$begingroup$
Ah ok that helps clear that up. Just so you know, that source is put together by a third party so it isn't an official source. They have taken a bunch of UA articles and put them together with graphics into one document. Do note that many of the UA in there are out of date though. In the future you are likely better off going to WotC's site and getting the official docs of whatever you want.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 19:12
add a comment |
6
$begingroup$
To avoid sarcasm, I suspect you want an answer more satisfying than Perhaps, correct?
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
Apr 12 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose Actually, this quote appears to be from the Eberron Unearthed Arcana document for D&D 5e, although the warforged described has been superceded by the newer Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana document.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard ahhh that is the old version of the UA that came out in 2015 no wonder I wasn't finding it. Though that doesn't explain what "page 8 of the B codex" is referring to. That UA document doesn't even have 8 pages...
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:29
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I downloaded this pdf and it’s on page 8.
$endgroup$
– MrHiTech
Apr 12 at 19:07
3
$begingroup$
Ah ok that helps clear that up. Just so you know, that source is put together by a third party so it isn't an official source. They have taken a bunch of UA articles and put them together with graphics into one document. Do note that many of the UA in there are out of date though. In the future you are likely better off going to WotC's site and getting the official docs of whatever you want.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 19:12
6
6
$begingroup$
To avoid sarcasm, I suspect you want an answer more satisfying than Perhaps, correct?
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
Apr 12 at 17:30
$begingroup$
To avoid sarcasm, I suspect you want an answer more satisfying than Perhaps, correct?
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
Apr 12 at 17:30
1
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose Actually, this quote appears to be from the Eberron Unearthed Arcana document for D&D 5e, although the warforged described has been superceded by the newer Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana document.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose Actually, this quote appears to be from the Eberron Unearthed Arcana document for D&D 5e, although the warforged described has been superceded by the newer Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana document.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard ahhh that is the old version of the UA that came out in 2015 no wonder I wasn't finding it. Though that doesn't explain what "page 8 of the B codex" is referring to. That UA document doesn't even have 8 pages...
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:29
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard ahhh that is the old version of the UA that came out in 2015 no wonder I wasn't finding it. Though that doesn't explain what "page 8 of the B codex" is referring to. That UA document doesn't even have 8 pages...
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:29
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I downloaded this pdf and it’s on page 8.
$endgroup$
– MrHiTech
Apr 12 at 19:07
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I downloaded this pdf and it’s on page 8.
$endgroup$
– MrHiTech
Apr 12 at 19:07
3
3
$begingroup$
Ah ok that helps clear that up. Just so you know, that source is put together by a third party so it isn't an official source. They have taken a bunch of UA articles and put them together with graphics into one document. Do note that many of the UA in there are out of date though. In the future you are likely better off going to WotC's site and getting the official docs of whatever you want.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 19:12
$begingroup$
Ah ok that helps clear that up. Just so you know, that source is put together by a third party so it isn't an official source. They have taken a bunch of UA articles and put them together with graphics into one document. Do note that many of the UA in there are out of date though. In the future you are likely better off going to WotC's site and getting the official docs of whatever you want.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 19:12
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's canonically ambiguous.
Like many of the big mysteries in Eberron, this question is left to the DM to decide. This type of intentional moral and cosmological ambiguity is a big part of the theme of the Eberron setting.
The people of Khorvaire consider the question of do warforged have souls? to be unsolved and controversial. The Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana article includes an excellent quote which illustrates this:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
—Keith Baker, The Shattered Land
The D&D 3rd edition book Races of Eberron, p.8, describes it as ambiguous:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls?
Even the warforged do not know if they have souls. Some warforged join the Blood of Vol, believing that they will be granted a soul in the afterlife.
What is the argument that warforged do have souls?
A warforged in D&D 5e is defined as living, as a humanoid, and as fully sentient. The method by which they are animated is not well known; it is not by an elemental spirit or some other automatic method. A player can control a warforged character as freely as any other character, and they appear to have free will.
Importantly, they are not given rules exceptions to any spell or effect which affects souls, and are therefore treated as any other humanoid.
What is the argument that warforged do not have souls?
The D&D 5e rules regarding warforged do not define anywhere that they do have souls. However, it must be noted that it is not stated either that humans, elves and such have souls; it is implied only by the existence of raise dead and similar spells, and a paragraph which defines that the souls of creatures pass through the Astral Plane.
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is canonically undefined
In published 5e lore, the only mention of a warforged soul is in the introduction to the race:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
— Keith Baker, The Shattered Land (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
The excerpt appears to be leaning into the fact that it is not clear if warforged have souls. Nowhere else is the question brought up much less answered.
In the 2015 version of the Races of Eberron 5e Unearthed Arcana it came out and said this explicitly:
Although they are constructs, they have much in common with living creatures, including emotions and social bonds, and perhaps even souls. (3)
Though it is worth noting that this wording did not make it into the final published version.
In 3rd edition lore, the question was explicitly debated in-universe and came to no conclusion:
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless. (Races of Eberron 16)
And explicitly mentioned as an undefined point about the race:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls? (Races of Eberron 8)
It seems that through the time this race has existed, this ambiguity has purposefully been emphasized and left as part of the race.
Mechanically, they effectively do
The only thing that is clear is that warforged are living and are affected as if they were any other living thing by spells and other effects:
While they’re formed from stone and steel, warforged are living humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
Mechanically this actually means that warforged should be affected by healing magic including resurrection spells that would require a soul. Thus, mechanically, the question doesn't really matter.
No lore reason is given for this, and in fact, the ability to be resurrected is canonically one of the supporting points for why they might have a soul though it also has a counter:
Breland argued that because warforged can be raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. (Races of Eberron 16)
But, as lore leaves the answer ambiguous, your DM can decide the specifics of the flavor of why things work like they do.
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
2
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
3
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
They are Humanoids; therefore, they have souls
In Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, the entry for Warforged says this:
Living Steel and Stone
Warforged are formed from a blend of organic and inorganic materials. [...]
While they are formed from stone and steel, warforged are humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. [...]
—Warforged, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, pg. 69
The bolded passage is important, because it applies especially to spells like Raise Dead:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to life with 1 hit point.
—Raise Dead, Player's Handbook, pg. 270
If Warforged did not have Souls, they'd be unable to benefit from a spell like this. Because their description specifically calls out healing, among other things, as providing as much benefit to Warforged as to other Humanoids, they must necessarily fulfill the same qualifications as other Humanoids for any spell that heals a character. Since Raise Dead is one such spell, which requires its targets to have a Soul, Warforged must have souls.
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
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Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
1
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes.
The 5th-level cleric spell Raise Dead says:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has
been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature’s soul is both
willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to
life with 1 hit point.
As there are no restrictions noted on the use of Raise Dead on the warforged, it necessarily follows that the warforged have souls.
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not the answer you want, but as I understand it canonically the answer is a firm and disputed "maybe". also depends on what version of DnD you are running.
From the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron:
The Treaty of Thronehold gave warforged their freedom, but only after great debate. House
Cannith and Thrane argued ardently that warforged were not living creatures because they do not
possess souls. Their evidence for this was that warforged cannot become undead by any known
method, not even ghosts or wraiths. They are immune to energy drain, and no one knows of a
warforged soul in Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead. Breland argued that because warforged can be
raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no
warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife.
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations
came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because
they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many
people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and
citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless.
I think they intend it as a plot point for Roleplay and depending on your version their status as "living constructs" means different things.
I would say as a DM if you can't pray without a soul and you can have warforged clerics and paladins then at least Some warforged have souls.
I am sure other have a more thorough knowledge of the fluff than I, but at the same time if i had a DM that ruled my warforged was soulless i would definitely use that to munchkin as many advantages as possible.
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
1
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
5
active
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$begingroup$
It's canonically ambiguous.
Like many of the big mysteries in Eberron, this question is left to the DM to decide. This type of intentional moral and cosmological ambiguity is a big part of the theme of the Eberron setting.
The people of Khorvaire consider the question of do warforged have souls? to be unsolved and controversial. The Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana article includes an excellent quote which illustrates this:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
—Keith Baker, The Shattered Land
The D&D 3rd edition book Races of Eberron, p.8, describes it as ambiguous:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls?
Even the warforged do not know if they have souls. Some warforged join the Blood of Vol, believing that they will be granted a soul in the afterlife.
What is the argument that warforged do have souls?
A warforged in D&D 5e is defined as living, as a humanoid, and as fully sentient. The method by which they are animated is not well known; it is not by an elemental spirit or some other automatic method. A player can control a warforged character as freely as any other character, and they appear to have free will.
Importantly, they are not given rules exceptions to any spell or effect which affects souls, and are therefore treated as any other humanoid.
What is the argument that warforged do not have souls?
The D&D 5e rules regarding warforged do not define anywhere that they do have souls. However, it must be noted that it is not stated either that humans, elves and such have souls; it is implied only by the existence of raise dead and similar spells, and a paragraph which defines that the souls of creatures pass through the Astral Plane.
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's canonically ambiguous.
Like many of the big mysteries in Eberron, this question is left to the DM to decide. This type of intentional moral and cosmological ambiguity is a big part of the theme of the Eberron setting.
The people of Khorvaire consider the question of do warforged have souls? to be unsolved and controversial. The Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana article includes an excellent quote which illustrates this:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
—Keith Baker, The Shattered Land
The D&D 3rd edition book Races of Eberron, p.8, describes it as ambiguous:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls?
Even the warforged do not know if they have souls. Some warforged join the Blood of Vol, believing that they will be granted a soul in the afterlife.
What is the argument that warforged do have souls?
A warforged in D&D 5e is defined as living, as a humanoid, and as fully sentient. The method by which they are animated is not well known; it is not by an elemental spirit or some other automatic method. A player can control a warforged character as freely as any other character, and they appear to have free will.
Importantly, they are not given rules exceptions to any spell or effect which affects souls, and are therefore treated as any other humanoid.
What is the argument that warforged do not have souls?
The D&D 5e rules regarding warforged do not define anywhere that they do have souls. However, it must be noted that it is not stated either that humans, elves and such have souls; it is implied only by the existence of raise dead and similar spells, and a paragraph which defines that the souls of creatures pass through the Astral Plane.
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's canonically ambiguous.
Like many of the big mysteries in Eberron, this question is left to the DM to decide. This type of intentional moral and cosmological ambiguity is a big part of the theme of the Eberron setting.
The people of Khorvaire consider the question of do warforged have souls? to be unsolved and controversial. The Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana article includes an excellent quote which illustrates this:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
—Keith Baker, The Shattered Land
The D&D 3rd edition book Races of Eberron, p.8, describes it as ambiguous:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls?
Even the warforged do not know if they have souls. Some warforged join the Blood of Vol, believing that they will be granted a soul in the afterlife.
What is the argument that warforged do have souls?
A warforged in D&D 5e is defined as living, as a humanoid, and as fully sentient. The method by which they are animated is not well known; it is not by an elemental spirit or some other automatic method. A player can control a warforged character as freely as any other character, and they appear to have free will.
Importantly, they are not given rules exceptions to any spell or effect which affects souls, and are therefore treated as any other humanoid.
What is the argument that warforged do not have souls?
The D&D 5e rules regarding warforged do not define anywhere that they do have souls. However, it must be noted that it is not stated either that humans, elves and such have souls; it is implied only by the existence of raise dead and similar spells, and a paragraph which defines that the souls of creatures pass through the Astral Plane.
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
$endgroup$
It's canonically ambiguous.
Like many of the big mysteries in Eberron, this question is left to the DM to decide. This type of intentional moral and cosmological ambiguity is a big part of the theme of the Eberron setting.
The people of Khorvaire consider the question of do warforged have souls? to be unsolved and controversial. The Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana article includes an excellent quote which illustrates this:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
—Keith Baker, The Shattered Land
The D&D 3rd edition book Races of Eberron, p.8, describes it as ambiguous:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls?
Even the warforged do not know if they have souls. Some warforged join the Blood of Vol, believing that they will be granted a soul in the afterlife.
What is the argument that warforged do have souls?
A warforged in D&D 5e is defined as living, as a humanoid, and as fully sentient. The method by which they are animated is not well known; it is not by an elemental spirit or some other automatic method. A player can control a warforged character as freely as any other character, and they appear to have free will.
Importantly, they are not given rules exceptions to any spell or effect which affects souls, and are therefore treated as any other humanoid.
What is the argument that warforged do not have souls?
The D&D 5e rules regarding warforged do not define anywhere that they do have souls. However, it must be noted that it is not stated either that humans, elves and such have souls; it is implied only by the existence of raise dead and similar spells, and a paragraph which defines that the souls of creatures pass through the Astral Plane.
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
edited Apr 12 at 18:16
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
answered Apr 12 at 17:46
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
33.2k3111180
33.2k3111180
1
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
1
1
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
$begingroup$
I seem to remember (in a long ago edition probably AD&D) that they called out souls for humans and spirits for demihumans.
$endgroup$
– Slagmoth
Apr 12 at 21:04
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is canonically undefined
In published 5e lore, the only mention of a warforged soul is in the introduction to the race:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
— Keith Baker, The Shattered Land (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
The excerpt appears to be leaning into the fact that it is not clear if warforged have souls. Nowhere else is the question brought up much less answered.
In the 2015 version of the Races of Eberron 5e Unearthed Arcana it came out and said this explicitly:
Although they are constructs, they have much in common with living creatures, including emotions and social bonds, and perhaps even souls. (3)
Though it is worth noting that this wording did not make it into the final published version.
In 3rd edition lore, the question was explicitly debated in-universe and came to no conclusion:
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless. (Races of Eberron 16)
And explicitly mentioned as an undefined point about the race:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls? (Races of Eberron 8)
It seems that through the time this race has existed, this ambiguity has purposefully been emphasized and left as part of the race.
Mechanically, they effectively do
The only thing that is clear is that warforged are living and are affected as if they were any other living thing by spells and other effects:
While they’re formed from stone and steel, warforged are living humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
Mechanically this actually means that warforged should be affected by healing magic including resurrection spells that would require a soul. Thus, mechanically, the question doesn't really matter.
No lore reason is given for this, and in fact, the ability to be resurrected is canonically one of the supporting points for why they might have a soul though it also has a counter:
Breland argued that because warforged can be raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. (Races of Eberron 16)
But, as lore leaves the answer ambiguous, your DM can decide the specifics of the flavor of why things work like they do.
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
2
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
3
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is canonically undefined
In published 5e lore, the only mention of a warforged soul is in the introduction to the race:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
— Keith Baker, The Shattered Land (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
The excerpt appears to be leaning into the fact that it is not clear if warforged have souls. Nowhere else is the question brought up much less answered.
In the 2015 version of the Races of Eberron 5e Unearthed Arcana it came out and said this explicitly:
Although they are constructs, they have much in common with living creatures, including emotions and social bonds, and perhaps even souls. (3)
Though it is worth noting that this wording did not make it into the final published version.
In 3rd edition lore, the question was explicitly debated in-universe and came to no conclusion:
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless. (Races of Eberron 16)
And explicitly mentioned as an undefined point about the race:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls? (Races of Eberron 8)
It seems that through the time this race has existed, this ambiguity has purposefully been emphasized and left as part of the race.
Mechanically, they effectively do
The only thing that is clear is that warforged are living and are affected as if they were any other living thing by spells and other effects:
While they’re formed from stone and steel, warforged are living humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
Mechanically this actually means that warforged should be affected by healing magic including resurrection spells that would require a soul. Thus, mechanically, the question doesn't really matter.
No lore reason is given for this, and in fact, the ability to be resurrected is canonically one of the supporting points for why they might have a soul though it also has a counter:
Breland argued that because warforged can be raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. (Races of Eberron 16)
But, as lore leaves the answer ambiguous, your DM can decide the specifics of the flavor of why things work like they do.
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
2
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
3
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is canonically undefined
In published 5e lore, the only mention of a warforged soul is in the introduction to the race:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
— Keith Baker, The Shattered Land (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
The excerpt appears to be leaning into the fact that it is not clear if warforged have souls. Nowhere else is the question brought up much less answered.
In the 2015 version of the Races of Eberron 5e Unearthed Arcana it came out and said this explicitly:
Although they are constructs, they have much in common with living creatures, including emotions and social bonds, and perhaps even souls. (3)
Though it is worth noting that this wording did not make it into the final published version.
In 3rd edition lore, the question was explicitly debated in-universe and came to no conclusion:
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless. (Races of Eberron 16)
And explicitly mentioned as an undefined point about the race:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls? (Races of Eberron 8)
It seems that through the time this race has existed, this ambiguity has purposefully been emphasized and left as part of the race.
Mechanically, they effectively do
The only thing that is clear is that warforged are living and are affected as if they were any other living thing by spells and other effects:
While they’re formed from stone and steel, warforged are living humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
Mechanically this actually means that warforged should be affected by healing magic including resurrection spells that would require a soul. Thus, mechanically, the question doesn't really matter.
No lore reason is given for this, and in fact, the ability to be resurrected is canonically one of the supporting points for why they might have a soul though it also has a counter:
Breland argued that because warforged can be raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. (Races of Eberron 16)
But, as lore leaves the answer ambiguous, your DM can decide the specifics of the flavor of why things work like they do.
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
$endgroup$
It is canonically undefined
In published 5e lore, the only mention of a warforged soul is in the introduction to the race:
“Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,” Lakashtai said. “The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.”
“What makes you think he has a soul?” Gerrion said.
“What makes you think you do?”
— Keith Baker, The Shattered Land (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
The excerpt appears to be leaning into the fact that it is not clear if warforged have souls. Nowhere else is the question brought up much less answered.
In the 2015 version of the Races of Eberron 5e Unearthed Arcana it came out and said this explicitly:
Although they are constructs, they have much in common with living creatures, including emotions and social bonds, and perhaps even souls. (3)
Though it is worth noting that this wording did not make it into the final published version.
In 3rd edition lore, the question was explicitly debated in-universe and came to no conclusion:
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless. (Races of Eberron 16)
And explicitly mentioned as an undefined point about the race:
When warforged are used, DMs should be mindful of potential controversies regarding the warforged: Do they have souls? (Races of Eberron 8)
It seems that through the time this race has existed, this ambiguity has purposefully been emphasized and left as part of the race.
Mechanically, they effectively do
The only thing that is clear is that warforged are living and are affected as if they were any other living thing by spells and other effects:
While they’re formed from stone and steel, warforged are living humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. (Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron 69)
Mechanically this actually means that warforged should be affected by healing magic including resurrection spells that would require a soul. Thus, mechanically, the question doesn't really matter.
No lore reason is given for this, and in fact, the ability to be resurrected is canonically one of the supporting points for why they might have a soul though it also has a counter:
Breland argued that because warforged can be raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. (Races of Eberron 16)
But, as lore leaves the answer ambiguous, your DM can decide the specifics of the flavor of why things work like they do.
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
edited Apr 12 at 19:00
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:42
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
61.9k10297455
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
2
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
3
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
2
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
3
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
$begingroup$
But are resurrection spells canonicaly healing magic per se?
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 18:01
2
2
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
$begingroup$
Yes, resurrection spells are categorized as healing spells on D&D beyond in 5e.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:02
3
3
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
The way DDB tags things for search purposes isn't always rooted in the rules. There are no official "healing" or "resurrection" categories in the rules. The main way spells are categorized in the rules are by school of magic, and in practice spells that heal are found in different schools from spells that raise the dead. Healing spells are almost always evocation except for Healing Spirit. Resurrection spells are typically necromancy except for Reincarnate. The only healing spell I can think of in the necromancy school is Life Transference, which also hurts the caster.
$endgroup$
– Doval
Apr 12 at 22:45
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
$begingroup$
@Doval sure it's not an iron clad argument, but as you point out the term "healing spell" is not a game term. I think seeing how they are categorized on the official ish site is one of the more useful ways to understand how the term is being used
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 13 at 1:05
add a comment |
$begingroup$
They are Humanoids; therefore, they have souls
In Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, the entry for Warforged says this:
Living Steel and Stone
Warforged are formed from a blend of organic and inorganic materials. [...]
While they are formed from stone and steel, warforged are humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. [...]
—Warforged, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, pg. 69
The bolded passage is important, because it applies especially to spells like Raise Dead:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to life with 1 hit point.
—Raise Dead, Player's Handbook, pg. 270
If Warforged did not have Souls, they'd be unable to benefit from a spell like this. Because their description specifically calls out healing, among other things, as providing as much benefit to Warforged as to other Humanoids, they must necessarily fulfill the same qualifications as other Humanoids for any spell that heals a character. Since Raise Dead is one such spell, which requires its targets to have a Soul, Warforged must have souls.
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
$begingroup$
Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
1
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
They are Humanoids; therefore, they have souls
In Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, the entry for Warforged says this:
Living Steel and Stone
Warforged are formed from a blend of organic and inorganic materials. [...]
While they are formed from stone and steel, warforged are humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. [...]
—Warforged, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, pg. 69
The bolded passage is important, because it applies especially to spells like Raise Dead:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to life with 1 hit point.
—Raise Dead, Player's Handbook, pg. 270
If Warforged did not have Souls, they'd be unable to benefit from a spell like this. Because their description specifically calls out healing, among other things, as providing as much benefit to Warforged as to other Humanoids, they must necessarily fulfill the same qualifications as other Humanoids for any spell that heals a character. Since Raise Dead is one such spell, which requires its targets to have a Soul, Warforged must have souls.
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
$begingroup$
Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
1
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
They are Humanoids; therefore, they have souls
In Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, the entry for Warforged says this:
Living Steel and Stone
Warforged are formed from a blend of organic and inorganic materials. [...]
While they are formed from stone and steel, warforged are humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. [...]
—Warforged, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, pg. 69
The bolded passage is important, because it applies especially to spells like Raise Dead:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to life with 1 hit point.
—Raise Dead, Player's Handbook, pg. 270
If Warforged did not have Souls, they'd be unable to benefit from a spell like this. Because their description specifically calls out healing, among other things, as providing as much benefit to Warforged as to other Humanoids, they must necessarily fulfill the same qualifications as other Humanoids for any spell that heals a character. Since Raise Dead is one such spell, which requires its targets to have a Soul, Warforged must have souls.
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
$endgroup$
They are Humanoids; therefore, they have souls
In Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, the entry for Warforged says this:
Living Steel and Stone
Warforged are formed from a blend of organic and inorganic materials. [...]
While they are formed from stone and steel, warforged are humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids. [...]
—Warforged, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, pg. 69
The bolded passage is important, because it applies especially to spells like Raise Dead:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to life with 1 hit point.
—Raise Dead, Player's Handbook, pg. 270
If Warforged did not have Souls, they'd be unable to benefit from a spell like this. Because their description specifically calls out healing, among other things, as providing as much benefit to Warforged as to other Humanoids, they must necessarily fulfill the same qualifications as other Humanoids for any spell that heals a character. Since Raise Dead is one such spell, which requires its targets to have a Soul, Warforged must have souls.
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
answered Apr 12 at 17:53
XiremaXirema
24.3k269144
24.3k269144
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
$begingroup$
Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
1
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
$begingroup$
Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
1
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
$begingroup$
The weak link seems to be whether Raise Dead qualifies as 'healing magic' or not...
$endgroup$
– adonies
Apr 12 at 17:59
$begingroup$
Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
Or does the statement that says healing magic affects them normally just provide them an exception which allows them to be healed by spells requiring souls without specifying if they do have one?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:00
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
$begingroup$
@adonies You'd have to find compelling evidence that being a school of Necromancy spell inherently precludes Raise Dead from qualifying as a Healing spell.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:08
2
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I very strongly do not read the quoted sections as carving out exceptions for Warforged in particular. If Raise Dead requires a willing soul, Warforged are expressly described as benefiting from all the same spells as Humanoids, and no passage is attempting to explicitly prove otherwise, then we have to conclude that Warforged have souls.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
Apr 12 at 18:19
1
1
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
$begingroup$
@Xirema Real question: do all humanoids have souls unequivocally?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:33
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes.
The 5th-level cleric spell Raise Dead says:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has
been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature’s soul is both
willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to
life with 1 hit point.
As there are no restrictions noted on the use of Raise Dead on the warforged, it necessarily follows that the warforged have souls.
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes.
The 5th-level cleric spell Raise Dead says:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has
been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature’s soul is both
willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to
life with 1 hit point.
As there are no restrictions noted on the use of Raise Dead on the warforged, it necessarily follows that the warforged have souls.
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes.
The 5th-level cleric spell Raise Dead says:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has
been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature’s soul is both
willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to
life with 1 hit point.
As there are no restrictions noted on the use of Raise Dead on the warforged, it necessarily follows that the warforged have souls.
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
$endgroup$
Yes.
The 5th-level cleric spell Raise Dead says:
You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has
been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature’s soul is both
willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to
life with 1 hit point.
As there are no restrictions noted on the use of Raise Dead on the warforged, it necessarily follows that the warforged have souls.
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
edited Apr 12 at 18:26
V2Blast
27.5k597167
27.5k597167
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
answered Apr 12 at 17:47
RogerRoger
1973
1973
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
$begingroup$
Note that in previous editions warforged were able to be resurrected but also explicitly and purposefully left unclear whether this was because they had a soul it for some other reason. So I don't think this is as conclusive as you make it.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not the answer you want, but as I understand it canonically the answer is a firm and disputed "maybe". also depends on what version of DnD you are running.
From the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron:
The Treaty of Thronehold gave warforged their freedom, but only after great debate. House
Cannith and Thrane argued ardently that warforged were not living creatures because they do not
possess souls. Their evidence for this was that warforged cannot become undead by any known
method, not even ghosts or wraiths. They are immune to energy drain, and no one knows of a
warforged soul in Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead. Breland argued that because warforged can be
raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no
warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife.
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations
came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because
they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many
people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and
citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless.
I think they intend it as a plot point for Roleplay and depending on your version their status as "living constructs" means different things.
I would say as a DM if you can't pray without a soul and you can have warforged clerics and paladins then at least Some warforged have souls.
I am sure other have a more thorough knowledge of the fluff than I, but at the same time if i had a DM that ruled my warforged was soulless i would definitely use that to munchkin as many advantages as possible.
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
1
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not the answer you want, but as I understand it canonically the answer is a firm and disputed "maybe". also depends on what version of DnD you are running.
From the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron:
The Treaty of Thronehold gave warforged their freedom, but only after great debate. House
Cannith and Thrane argued ardently that warforged were not living creatures because they do not
possess souls. Their evidence for this was that warforged cannot become undead by any known
method, not even ghosts or wraiths. They are immune to energy drain, and no one knows of a
warforged soul in Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead. Breland argued that because warforged can be
raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no
warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife.
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations
came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because
they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many
people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and
citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless.
I think they intend it as a plot point for Roleplay and depending on your version their status as "living constructs" means different things.
I would say as a DM if you can't pray without a soul and you can have warforged clerics and paladins then at least Some warforged have souls.
I am sure other have a more thorough knowledge of the fluff than I, but at the same time if i had a DM that ruled my warforged was soulless i would definitely use that to munchkin as many advantages as possible.
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
1
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not the answer you want, but as I understand it canonically the answer is a firm and disputed "maybe". also depends on what version of DnD you are running.
From the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron:
The Treaty of Thronehold gave warforged their freedom, but only after great debate. House
Cannith and Thrane argued ardently that warforged were not living creatures because they do not
possess souls. Their evidence for this was that warforged cannot become undead by any known
method, not even ghosts or wraiths. They are immune to energy drain, and no one knows of a
warforged soul in Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead. Breland argued that because warforged can be
raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no
warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife.
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations
came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because
they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many
people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and
citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless.
I think they intend it as a plot point for Roleplay and depending on your version their status as "living constructs" means different things.
I would say as a DM if you can't pray without a soul and you can have warforged clerics and paladins then at least Some warforged have souls.
I am sure other have a more thorough knowledge of the fluff than I, but at the same time if i had a DM that ruled my warforged was soulless i would definitely use that to munchkin as many advantages as possible.
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
$endgroup$
not the answer you want, but as I understand it canonically the answer is a firm and disputed "maybe". also depends on what version of DnD you are running.
From the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron:
The Treaty of Thronehold gave warforged their freedom, but only after great debate. House
Cannith and Thrane argued ardently that warforged were not living creatures because they do not
possess souls. Their evidence for this was that warforged cannot become undead by any known
method, not even ghosts or wraiths. They are immune to energy drain, and no one knows of a
warforged soul in Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead. Breland argued that because warforged can be
raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no
warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife.
In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations
came to be known, was left unanswered. Warforged were freed because
they could exhibit independent thought and free will. Today many
people continue to think of warforged as creatures without souls, and
citizens of Thrane often refer to warforged as “the soulless.
I think they intend it as a plot point for Roleplay and depending on your version their status as "living constructs" means different things.
I would say as a DM if you can't pray without a soul and you can have warforged clerics and paladins then at least Some warforged have souls.
I am sure other have a more thorough knowledge of the fluff than I, but at the same time if i had a DM that ruled my warforged was soulless i would definitely use that to munchkin as many advantages as possible.
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
edited Apr 12 at 18:45
Rubiksmoose
61.9k10297455
61.9k10297455
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
answered Apr 12 at 17:39
Jason DossettJason Dossett
916
916
1
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
1
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
1
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
1
1
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
$begingroup$
What sourcebook did you get that quote from?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 17:45
1
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I believe this is from the D&D 3e sourcebook Races of Eberron.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 17:48
1
1
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard thanks! I've edited that citation in here so it is clearer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:45
add a comment |
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6
$begingroup$
To avoid sarcasm, I suspect you want an answer more satisfying than Perhaps, correct?
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
Apr 12 at 17:30
1
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose Actually, this quote appears to be from the Eberron Unearthed Arcana document for D&D 5e, although the warforged described has been superceded by the newer Eberron Races Unearthed Arcana document.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
Apr 12 at 18:26
$begingroup$
@QuadraticWizard ahhh that is the old version of the UA that came out in 2015 no wonder I wasn't finding it. Though that doesn't explain what "page 8 of the B codex" is referring to. That UA document doesn't even have 8 pages...
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 18:29
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I downloaded this pdf and it’s on page 8.
$endgroup$
– MrHiTech
Apr 12 at 19:07
3
$begingroup$
Ah ok that helps clear that up. Just so you know, that source is put together by a third party so it isn't an official source. They have taken a bunch of UA articles and put them together with graphics into one document. Do note that many of the UA in there are out of date though. In the future you are likely better off going to WotC's site and getting the official docs of whatever you want.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
Apr 12 at 19:12