Eigenvalue-taking operator?Does a product of matrices have eigenvalue 1Limit of largest eigenvalueIs it always possible to “separate” the eigenvalues of an integer matrix?Eigenvalue-related statementsestimate of smallest eigenvalue of Schrodinger operatorconvergence of 2nd eigenvalueFind logarithm of a matrix containing a constrained set of basis elementsExistence of double eigenvalueMaximizing a certain eigenvalue ratioSmallest eigenvalue for Gram matrix of unit norm matrices

Eigenvalue-taking operator?


Does a product of matrices have eigenvalue 1Limit of largest eigenvalueIs it always possible to “separate” the eigenvalues of an integer matrix?Eigenvalue-related statementsestimate of smallest eigenvalue of Schrodinger operatorconvergence of 2nd eigenvalueFind logarithm of a matrix containing a constrained set of basis elementsExistence of double eigenvalueMaximizing a certain eigenvalue ratioSmallest eigenvalue for Gram matrix of unit norm matrices













3












$begingroup$


$newcommandTroperatornameTr$
Is there a continuous map $(p,t) mapsto lambda(p,t)$ which, given a path $p: [0,1] to M(2,mathbb R)$ and a $t in mathbb [0,1]$, gives back an eigenvalue of $p(t)$? Additionally, I'd like it that if $p(a) = -p(b)$ for some $a, b in [0,1]$, then $lambda(p,a) = -lambda(p,b)$.



A naive possibility would be $lambda(p, t) = fracTr(p(t)) pm sqrtTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t)) 2$, using the quadratic formula and the characteristic polynomial. But this has got $pm$ in it, which is not a function. Changing $pm$ into $+$, the image of the path $$p(t) = beginpmatrix0 & 1-2t \ 2t - 1 & 0 endpmatrix$$ is seen to violate the second condition: namely, $lambda(p,0)=lambda(p,1)=i$ when what's needed is $lambda(p,0)=-lambda(p,1)$.



This problem is unsolvable when $M(2, mathbb R)$ is changed to $M(2, mathbb C)$, as the existence of $lambda(-,-)$ would violate the simple-connectivity of $SL(2,mathbb C)$.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    You switch between $lambda$ and $L$. It's also not clear what $sqrtcdot$ should mean in your proposed definition of $L$, as a well defined function $mathbb R to mathbb C$ (although I guess any naïve candidate is fine?). What is the topology in which $lambda$ is continuous?
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 8:45











  • $begingroup$
    Please clarify the domain of your function $lambda$. Does it take in the whole path, or is it defined as $lambda:M(2,Bbb R)timesBbb RtoBbb C$? If it takes in the whole path, then we really need the topology you use on the space of paths.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    May 8 at 9:52











  • $begingroup$
    @M.Winter I take your point. I only understand these concepts naively at the moment. It might be premature to be asking these questions if I don't know which topology to use for $M(2, mathbb R)^[0,1]$, for instance. The motivation was to see if I could complete a proof of the lack of simple-connectivity of $SL(2, mathbb R)$. And indeed $lambda$ should take in the whole path, and the second condition should be in hindsight that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is smooth whenever $p$ is smooth. But I'm even less sure how to solve that
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 15:04











  • $begingroup$
    By the way, the discriminant should be $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t))$, not $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 + 4det(p(t))$.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 10 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    @LSpice Fixed..
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 10 at 9:13















3












$begingroup$


$newcommandTroperatornameTr$
Is there a continuous map $(p,t) mapsto lambda(p,t)$ which, given a path $p: [0,1] to M(2,mathbb R)$ and a $t in mathbb [0,1]$, gives back an eigenvalue of $p(t)$? Additionally, I'd like it that if $p(a) = -p(b)$ for some $a, b in [0,1]$, then $lambda(p,a) = -lambda(p,b)$.



A naive possibility would be $lambda(p, t) = fracTr(p(t)) pm sqrtTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t)) 2$, using the quadratic formula and the characteristic polynomial. But this has got $pm$ in it, which is not a function. Changing $pm$ into $+$, the image of the path $$p(t) = beginpmatrix0 & 1-2t \ 2t - 1 & 0 endpmatrix$$ is seen to violate the second condition: namely, $lambda(p,0)=lambda(p,1)=i$ when what's needed is $lambda(p,0)=-lambda(p,1)$.



This problem is unsolvable when $M(2, mathbb R)$ is changed to $M(2, mathbb C)$, as the existence of $lambda(-,-)$ would violate the simple-connectivity of $SL(2,mathbb C)$.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    You switch between $lambda$ and $L$. It's also not clear what $sqrtcdot$ should mean in your proposed definition of $L$, as a well defined function $mathbb R to mathbb C$ (although I guess any naïve candidate is fine?). What is the topology in which $lambda$ is continuous?
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 8:45











  • $begingroup$
    Please clarify the domain of your function $lambda$. Does it take in the whole path, or is it defined as $lambda:M(2,Bbb R)timesBbb RtoBbb C$? If it takes in the whole path, then we really need the topology you use on the space of paths.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    May 8 at 9:52











  • $begingroup$
    @M.Winter I take your point. I only understand these concepts naively at the moment. It might be premature to be asking these questions if I don't know which topology to use for $M(2, mathbb R)^[0,1]$, for instance. The motivation was to see if I could complete a proof of the lack of simple-connectivity of $SL(2, mathbb R)$. And indeed $lambda$ should take in the whole path, and the second condition should be in hindsight that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is smooth whenever $p$ is smooth. But I'm even less sure how to solve that
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 15:04











  • $begingroup$
    By the way, the discriminant should be $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t))$, not $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 + 4det(p(t))$.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 10 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    @LSpice Fixed..
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 10 at 9:13













3












3








3


1



$begingroup$


$newcommandTroperatornameTr$
Is there a continuous map $(p,t) mapsto lambda(p,t)$ which, given a path $p: [0,1] to M(2,mathbb R)$ and a $t in mathbb [0,1]$, gives back an eigenvalue of $p(t)$? Additionally, I'd like it that if $p(a) = -p(b)$ for some $a, b in [0,1]$, then $lambda(p,a) = -lambda(p,b)$.



A naive possibility would be $lambda(p, t) = fracTr(p(t)) pm sqrtTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t)) 2$, using the quadratic formula and the characteristic polynomial. But this has got $pm$ in it, which is not a function. Changing $pm$ into $+$, the image of the path $$p(t) = beginpmatrix0 & 1-2t \ 2t - 1 & 0 endpmatrix$$ is seen to violate the second condition: namely, $lambda(p,0)=lambda(p,1)=i$ when what's needed is $lambda(p,0)=-lambda(p,1)$.



This problem is unsolvable when $M(2, mathbb R)$ is changed to $M(2, mathbb C)$, as the existence of $lambda(-,-)$ would violate the simple-connectivity of $SL(2,mathbb C)$.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




$newcommandTroperatornameTr$
Is there a continuous map $(p,t) mapsto lambda(p,t)$ which, given a path $p: [0,1] to M(2,mathbb R)$ and a $t in mathbb [0,1]$, gives back an eigenvalue of $p(t)$? Additionally, I'd like it that if $p(a) = -p(b)$ for some $a, b in [0,1]$, then $lambda(p,a) = -lambda(p,b)$.



A naive possibility would be $lambda(p, t) = fracTr(p(t)) pm sqrtTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t)) 2$, using the quadratic formula and the characteristic polynomial. But this has got $pm$ in it, which is not a function. Changing $pm$ into $+$, the image of the path $$p(t) = beginpmatrix0 & 1-2t \ 2t - 1 & 0 endpmatrix$$ is seen to violate the second condition: namely, $lambda(p,0)=lambda(p,1)=i$ when what's needed is $lambda(p,0)=-lambda(p,1)$.



This problem is unsolvable when $M(2, mathbb R)$ is changed to $M(2, mathbb C)$, as the existence of $lambda(-,-)$ would violate the simple-connectivity of $SL(2,mathbb C)$.







matrices eigenvalues






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited May 10 at 6:13







man and laptop

















asked May 8 at 7:35









man and laptopman and laptop

1417




1417











  • $begingroup$
    You switch between $lambda$ and $L$. It's also not clear what $sqrtcdot$ should mean in your proposed definition of $L$, as a well defined function $mathbb R to mathbb C$ (although I guess any naïve candidate is fine?). What is the topology in which $lambda$ is continuous?
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 8:45











  • $begingroup$
    Please clarify the domain of your function $lambda$. Does it take in the whole path, or is it defined as $lambda:M(2,Bbb R)timesBbb RtoBbb C$? If it takes in the whole path, then we really need the topology you use on the space of paths.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    May 8 at 9:52











  • $begingroup$
    @M.Winter I take your point. I only understand these concepts naively at the moment. It might be premature to be asking these questions if I don't know which topology to use for $M(2, mathbb R)^[0,1]$, for instance. The motivation was to see if I could complete a proof of the lack of simple-connectivity of $SL(2, mathbb R)$. And indeed $lambda$ should take in the whole path, and the second condition should be in hindsight that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is smooth whenever $p$ is smooth. But I'm even less sure how to solve that
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 15:04











  • $begingroup$
    By the way, the discriminant should be $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t))$, not $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 + 4det(p(t))$.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 10 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    @LSpice Fixed..
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 10 at 9:13
















  • $begingroup$
    You switch between $lambda$ and $L$. It's also not clear what $sqrtcdot$ should mean in your proposed definition of $L$, as a well defined function $mathbb R to mathbb C$ (although I guess any naïve candidate is fine?). What is the topology in which $lambda$ is continuous?
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 8:45











  • $begingroup$
    Please clarify the domain of your function $lambda$. Does it take in the whole path, or is it defined as $lambda:M(2,Bbb R)timesBbb RtoBbb C$? If it takes in the whole path, then we really need the topology you use on the space of paths.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    May 8 at 9:52











  • $begingroup$
    @M.Winter I take your point. I only understand these concepts naively at the moment. It might be premature to be asking these questions if I don't know which topology to use for $M(2, mathbb R)^[0,1]$, for instance. The motivation was to see if I could complete a proof of the lack of simple-connectivity of $SL(2, mathbb R)$. And indeed $lambda$ should take in the whole path, and the second condition should be in hindsight that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is smooth whenever $p$ is smooth. But I'm even less sure how to solve that
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 15:04











  • $begingroup$
    By the way, the discriminant should be $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t))$, not $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 + 4det(p(t))$.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 10 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    @LSpice Fixed..
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 10 at 9:13















$begingroup$
You switch between $lambda$ and $L$. It's also not clear what $sqrtcdot$ should mean in your proposed definition of $L$, as a well defined function $mathbb R to mathbb C$ (although I guess any naïve candidate is fine?). What is the topology in which $lambda$ is continuous?
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 8:45





$begingroup$
You switch between $lambda$ and $L$. It's also not clear what $sqrtcdot$ should mean in your proposed definition of $L$, as a well defined function $mathbb R to mathbb C$ (although I guess any naïve candidate is fine?). What is the topology in which $lambda$ is continuous?
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 8:45













$begingroup$
Please clarify the domain of your function $lambda$. Does it take in the whole path, or is it defined as $lambda:M(2,Bbb R)timesBbb RtoBbb C$? If it takes in the whole path, then we really need the topology you use on the space of paths.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
May 8 at 9:52





$begingroup$
Please clarify the domain of your function $lambda$. Does it take in the whole path, or is it defined as $lambda:M(2,Bbb R)timesBbb RtoBbb C$? If it takes in the whole path, then we really need the topology you use on the space of paths.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
May 8 at 9:52













$begingroup$
@M.Winter I take your point. I only understand these concepts naively at the moment. It might be premature to be asking these questions if I don't know which topology to use for $M(2, mathbb R)^[0,1]$, for instance. The motivation was to see if I could complete a proof of the lack of simple-connectivity of $SL(2, mathbb R)$. And indeed $lambda$ should take in the whole path, and the second condition should be in hindsight that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is smooth whenever $p$ is smooth. But I'm even less sure how to solve that
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 8 at 15:04





$begingroup$
@M.Winter I take your point. I only understand these concepts naively at the moment. It might be premature to be asking these questions if I don't know which topology to use for $M(2, mathbb R)^[0,1]$, for instance. The motivation was to see if I could complete a proof of the lack of simple-connectivity of $SL(2, mathbb R)$. And indeed $lambda$ should take in the whole path, and the second condition should be in hindsight that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is smooth whenever $p$ is smooth. But I'm even less sure how to solve that
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 8 at 15:04













$begingroup$
By the way, the discriminant should be $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t))$, not $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 + 4det(p(t))$.
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 10 at 1:44




$begingroup$
By the way, the discriminant should be $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 - 4det(p(t))$, not $operatornameTr(p(t))^2 + 4det(p(t))$.
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 10 at 1:44












$begingroup$
@LSpice Fixed..
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 10 at 9:13




$begingroup$
@LSpice Fixed..
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 10 at 9:13










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

I originally gave a wrong candidate for an answer, but in fact no such path can exist (at least, assuming that your topologies are such that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous for all paths $p$). Indeed, define $p : [0, 1] to operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$ by
$$
p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \ sin(pi t) & -cos(pi t) endpmatrix
$$

for all $t in [0, 1]$. Then $lambda(p, t) in pm1$ for all $t in [0, 1]$, but $lambda(p, 1) = -lambda(p, 0)$, which is impossible if $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous.



EDIT: I suspected from your mention of the simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$, and see definitely from your comment, that you are interested in the non-simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. It may be that a particularly simple way to see this is to consider the metaplectic group, which is a non-split double cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. Notice that your original example can be adapted to give a polynomial path in $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ (not just in $operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$, or even just in $operatornameGL(2, mathbb R)$ as my original path was):
$$
t mapsto p(t) = beginpmatrix
t(1 - t) & 1 - t^2(6 - 4t) \
-1 + t^2(6 - 4t) & 4t(1 - t)(3 - 2t)(1 + 2t)
endpmatrix.
$$



Notice that the cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ implicit in your question, namely
$$
E mathrel:= (g, lambda) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $lambda$ is an eigenvalue of $g$,
$$

is a branched cover; it is a double cover only on the regular semisimple set (of elements with distinct eigenvalues). Its restriction to the regular semisimple set is isomorphic (as a cover of the rss set) to the restriction there of the branched cover
$$
(g, B) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $B$ is a Borel subgroup of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$ containing $g$
$$

(namely, associate $(g, lambda)$ and $(g, B)$ if and only if the non-trivial eigenvalue of $operatornameAd(g)$ on $operatornameLie(B)$ is $lambda^2$). However, I think that the restriction is not isomorphic to the restriction of the metaplectic group. Indeed, let $lambda$ and $mu$ be distinct elements of $mathbb R$ satisfying $lambdamu = 1$. Then any lift to $E$ of the path
$$
t mapsto operatornameIntbeginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & sin(pi t)
endpmatrixbeginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix
$$

projects, via $E to mathbb C$, to $lambda, mu$, hence is constantly $lambda$ or constantly $mu$; but, if I've done my computation properly, then
$$
operatornameInt(w(t))Bigl(beginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix, sqrtmuBigr),
$$

where $w(t) = Bigl(beginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & cos(pi t)
endpmatrix, epsilon_tBigr)$
, with $epsilon_t(i) = e^pi i t/2$, is a path in the restriction to the rss set of the metaplectic cover that connects the two pre-images of $beginpmatrix lambda & 0 \ 0 & mu endpmatrix$. (I'm using the description of points in the metaplectic group from Wikipedia.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 9:22










  • $begingroup$
    It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:25











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:29











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 14:43











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes









6












$begingroup$

I originally gave a wrong candidate for an answer, but in fact no such path can exist (at least, assuming that your topologies are such that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous for all paths $p$). Indeed, define $p : [0, 1] to operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$ by
$$
p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \ sin(pi t) & -cos(pi t) endpmatrix
$$

for all $t in [0, 1]$. Then $lambda(p, t) in pm1$ for all $t in [0, 1]$, but $lambda(p, 1) = -lambda(p, 0)$, which is impossible if $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous.



EDIT: I suspected from your mention of the simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$, and see definitely from your comment, that you are interested in the non-simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. It may be that a particularly simple way to see this is to consider the metaplectic group, which is a non-split double cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. Notice that your original example can be adapted to give a polynomial path in $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ (not just in $operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$, or even just in $operatornameGL(2, mathbb R)$ as my original path was):
$$
t mapsto p(t) = beginpmatrix
t(1 - t) & 1 - t^2(6 - 4t) \
-1 + t^2(6 - 4t) & 4t(1 - t)(3 - 2t)(1 + 2t)
endpmatrix.
$$



Notice that the cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ implicit in your question, namely
$$
E mathrel:= (g, lambda) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $lambda$ is an eigenvalue of $g$,
$$

is a branched cover; it is a double cover only on the regular semisimple set (of elements with distinct eigenvalues). Its restriction to the regular semisimple set is isomorphic (as a cover of the rss set) to the restriction there of the branched cover
$$
(g, B) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $B$ is a Borel subgroup of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$ containing $g$
$$

(namely, associate $(g, lambda)$ and $(g, B)$ if and only if the non-trivial eigenvalue of $operatornameAd(g)$ on $operatornameLie(B)$ is $lambda^2$). However, I think that the restriction is not isomorphic to the restriction of the metaplectic group. Indeed, let $lambda$ and $mu$ be distinct elements of $mathbb R$ satisfying $lambdamu = 1$. Then any lift to $E$ of the path
$$
t mapsto operatornameIntbeginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & sin(pi t)
endpmatrixbeginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix
$$

projects, via $E to mathbb C$, to $lambda, mu$, hence is constantly $lambda$ or constantly $mu$; but, if I've done my computation properly, then
$$
operatornameInt(w(t))Bigl(beginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix, sqrtmuBigr),
$$

where $w(t) = Bigl(beginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & cos(pi t)
endpmatrix, epsilon_tBigr)$
, with $epsilon_t(i) = e^pi i t/2$, is a path in the restriction to the rss set of the metaplectic cover that connects the two pre-images of $beginpmatrix lambda & 0 \ 0 & mu endpmatrix$. (I'm using the description of points in the metaplectic group from Wikipedia.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 9:22










  • $begingroup$
    It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:25











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:29











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 14:43















6












$begingroup$

I originally gave a wrong candidate for an answer, but in fact no such path can exist (at least, assuming that your topologies are such that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous for all paths $p$). Indeed, define $p : [0, 1] to operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$ by
$$
p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \ sin(pi t) & -cos(pi t) endpmatrix
$$

for all $t in [0, 1]$. Then $lambda(p, t) in pm1$ for all $t in [0, 1]$, but $lambda(p, 1) = -lambda(p, 0)$, which is impossible if $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous.



EDIT: I suspected from your mention of the simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$, and see definitely from your comment, that you are interested in the non-simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. It may be that a particularly simple way to see this is to consider the metaplectic group, which is a non-split double cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. Notice that your original example can be adapted to give a polynomial path in $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ (not just in $operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$, or even just in $operatornameGL(2, mathbb R)$ as my original path was):
$$
t mapsto p(t) = beginpmatrix
t(1 - t) & 1 - t^2(6 - 4t) \
-1 + t^2(6 - 4t) & 4t(1 - t)(3 - 2t)(1 + 2t)
endpmatrix.
$$



Notice that the cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ implicit in your question, namely
$$
E mathrel:= (g, lambda) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $lambda$ is an eigenvalue of $g$,
$$

is a branched cover; it is a double cover only on the regular semisimple set (of elements with distinct eigenvalues). Its restriction to the regular semisimple set is isomorphic (as a cover of the rss set) to the restriction there of the branched cover
$$
(g, B) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $B$ is a Borel subgroup of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$ containing $g$
$$

(namely, associate $(g, lambda)$ and $(g, B)$ if and only if the non-trivial eigenvalue of $operatornameAd(g)$ on $operatornameLie(B)$ is $lambda^2$). However, I think that the restriction is not isomorphic to the restriction of the metaplectic group. Indeed, let $lambda$ and $mu$ be distinct elements of $mathbb R$ satisfying $lambdamu = 1$. Then any lift to $E$ of the path
$$
t mapsto operatornameIntbeginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & sin(pi t)
endpmatrixbeginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix
$$

projects, via $E to mathbb C$, to $lambda, mu$, hence is constantly $lambda$ or constantly $mu$; but, if I've done my computation properly, then
$$
operatornameInt(w(t))Bigl(beginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix, sqrtmuBigr),
$$

where $w(t) = Bigl(beginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & cos(pi t)
endpmatrix, epsilon_tBigr)$
, with $epsilon_t(i) = e^pi i t/2$, is a path in the restriction to the rss set of the metaplectic cover that connects the two pre-images of $beginpmatrix lambda & 0 \ 0 & mu endpmatrix$. (I'm using the description of points in the metaplectic group from Wikipedia.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 9:22










  • $begingroup$
    It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:25











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:29











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 14:43













6












6








6





$begingroup$

I originally gave a wrong candidate for an answer, but in fact no such path can exist (at least, assuming that your topologies are such that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous for all paths $p$). Indeed, define $p : [0, 1] to operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$ by
$$
p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \ sin(pi t) & -cos(pi t) endpmatrix
$$

for all $t in [0, 1]$. Then $lambda(p, t) in pm1$ for all $t in [0, 1]$, but $lambda(p, 1) = -lambda(p, 0)$, which is impossible if $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous.



EDIT: I suspected from your mention of the simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$, and see definitely from your comment, that you are interested in the non-simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. It may be that a particularly simple way to see this is to consider the metaplectic group, which is a non-split double cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. Notice that your original example can be adapted to give a polynomial path in $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ (not just in $operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$, or even just in $operatornameGL(2, mathbb R)$ as my original path was):
$$
t mapsto p(t) = beginpmatrix
t(1 - t) & 1 - t^2(6 - 4t) \
-1 + t^2(6 - 4t) & 4t(1 - t)(3 - 2t)(1 + 2t)
endpmatrix.
$$



Notice that the cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ implicit in your question, namely
$$
E mathrel:= (g, lambda) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $lambda$ is an eigenvalue of $g$,
$$

is a branched cover; it is a double cover only on the regular semisimple set (of elements with distinct eigenvalues). Its restriction to the regular semisimple set is isomorphic (as a cover of the rss set) to the restriction there of the branched cover
$$
(g, B) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $B$ is a Borel subgroup of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$ containing $g$
$$

(namely, associate $(g, lambda)$ and $(g, B)$ if and only if the non-trivial eigenvalue of $operatornameAd(g)$ on $operatornameLie(B)$ is $lambda^2$). However, I think that the restriction is not isomorphic to the restriction of the metaplectic group. Indeed, let $lambda$ and $mu$ be distinct elements of $mathbb R$ satisfying $lambdamu = 1$. Then any lift to $E$ of the path
$$
t mapsto operatornameIntbeginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & sin(pi t)
endpmatrixbeginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix
$$

projects, via $E to mathbb C$, to $lambda, mu$, hence is constantly $lambda$ or constantly $mu$; but, if I've done my computation properly, then
$$
operatornameInt(w(t))Bigl(beginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix, sqrtmuBigr),
$$

where $w(t) = Bigl(beginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & cos(pi t)
endpmatrix, epsilon_tBigr)$
, with $epsilon_t(i) = e^pi i t/2$, is a path in the restriction to the rss set of the metaplectic cover that connects the two pre-images of $beginpmatrix lambda & 0 \ 0 & mu endpmatrix$. (I'm using the description of points in the metaplectic group from Wikipedia.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



I originally gave a wrong candidate for an answer, but in fact no such path can exist (at least, assuming that your topologies are such that $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous for all paths $p$). Indeed, define $p : [0, 1] to operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$ by
$$
p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \ sin(pi t) & -cos(pi t) endpmatrix
$$

for all $t in [0, 1]$. Then $lambda(p, t) in pm1$ for all $t in [0, 1]$, but $lambda(p, 1) = -lambda(p, 0)$, which is impossible if $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ is continuous.



EDIT: I suspected from your mention of the simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$, and see definitely from your comment, that you are interested in the non-simple connectedness of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. It may be that a particularly simple way to see this is to consider the metaplectic group, which is a non-split double cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$. Notice that your original example can be adapted to give a polynomial path in $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ (not just in $operatorname M(2, mathbb R)$, or even just in $operatornameGL(2, mathbb R)$ as my original path was):
$$
t mapsto p(t) = beginpmatrix
t(1 - t) & 1 - t^2(6 - 4t) \
-1 + t^2(6 - 4t) & 4t(1 - t)(3 - 2t)(1 + 2t)
endpmatrix.
$$



Notice that the cover of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ implicit in your question, namely
$$
E mathrel:= (g, lambda) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $lambda$ is an eigenvalue of $g$,
$$

is a branched cover; it is a double cover only on the regular semisimple set (of elements with distinct eigenvalues). Its restriction to the regular semisimple set is isomorphic (as a cover of the rss set) to the restriction there of the branched cover
$$
(g, B) : text$g in operatornameSL(2, mathbb R)$ and $B$ is a Borel subgroup of $operatornameSL(2, mathbb C)$ containing $g$
$$

(namely, associate $(g, lambda)$ and $(g, B)$ if and only if the non-trivial eigenvalue of $operatornameAd(g)$ on $operatornameLie(B)$ is $lambda^2$). However, I think that the restriction is not isomorphic to the restriction of the metaplectic group. Indeed, let $lambda$ and $mu$ be distinct elements of $mathbb R$ satisfying $lambdamu = 1$. Then any lift to $E$ of the path
$$
t mapsto operatornameIntbeginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & sin(pi t)
endpmatrixbeginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix
$$

projects, via $E to mathbb C$, to $lambda, mu$, hence is constantly $lambda$ or constantly $mu$; but, if I've done my computation properly, then
$$
operatornameInt(w(t))Bigl(beginpmatrix
lambda & 0 \
0 & mu
endpmatrix, sqrtmuBigr),
$$

where $w(t) = Bigl(beginpmatrix
cos(pi t) & sin(pi t) \
-sin(pi t) & cos(pi t)
endpmatrix, epsilon_tBigr)$
, with $epsilon_t(i) = e^pi i t/2$, is a path in the restriction to the rss set of the metaplectic cover that connects the two pre-images of $beginpmatrix lambda & 0 \ 0 & mu endpmatrix$. (I'm using the description of points in the metaplectic group from Wikipedia.)







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited May 8 at 17:53

























answered May 8 at 9:10









LSpiceLSpice

3,04322630




3,04322630











  • $begingroup$
    The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 9:22










  • $begingroup$
    It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:25











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:29











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 14:43
















  • $begingroup$
    The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 9:22










  • $begingroup$
    It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:25











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:29











  • $begingroup$
    @manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
    $endgroup$
    – LSpice
    May 8 at 9:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
    $endgroup$
    – man and laptop
    May 8 at 14:43















$begingroup$
The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 8 at 9:22




$begingroup$
The topologies are indeed the usual Euclidean topologies. The $sqrt : mathbb R to mathbb C$ is really any continuous function such that $(sqrt x)^2 = x$
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 8 at 9:22












$begingroup$
It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 9:25





$begingroup$
It makes sense to speak of the continuity of a map $e$ like mine in the Euclidean topologies, but your map is defined on paths, which don't carry a Euclidean topology. Probably something like the compact-open topology there is what you want. Anyway, for any reasonable choice of topology on paths, at least the sort of composition I've suggested should be continuous.
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 9:25













$begingroup$
@manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 9:29





$begingroup$
@manonlaptop, sorry, this isn't continuous; consider its composition with $t mapsto beginpmatrix t & -1 \ 1 & 0 endpmatrix$ at $t = 0$. I'll think further.
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 9:29













$begingroup$
@manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 9:56




$begingroup$
@manonlaptop, in fact I now think that there is no such path, as evidenced by a small variant of your proposed example. Please see the new edit. Sorry for my mistake!
$endgroup$
– LSpice
May 8 at 9:56












$begingroup$
I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 8 at 14:43




$begingroup$
I think I asked the wrong question. But it's a nice example. My second condition should've been that if $p$ is smooth then $t mapsto lambda(p, t)$ should also be smooth. This is violated for $p(t) = beginpmatrix cos(2pi t) & -sin(2pi t) \ sin(2pi t) & cos(2pi t) endpmatrix$ and my naive definition of $lambda$. After $t=0.5$, the trajectory of $tmapstolambda(p,t)$ suddenly reverses. This is also why I used $L$ originally instead of $lambda$, so I could talk about my example without confusing it with the imagined $lambda$.I may reverse the edit that proposed the name change
$endgroup$
– man and laptop
May 8 at 14:43

















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