Using chain rule to differentiate $f(x)=a(x)b(x)$?Derivative rulesIntuition of multivariable chain ruleDifferentiate using the chain rule. Do not simplify.Correct simultanous application of chain and product ruleChain rule extravaganza - how to derive this?A puzzling “failure” of the Chain RuleOn the chain ruleChain rule when applying L'Hopital's ruleChain rule doubtHow to use the chain rule for change of variablePartial derivatives and normal derivative combined in the chain rule
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Using chain rule to differentiate $f(x)=a(x)b(x)$?
Derivative rulesIntuition of multivariable chain ruleDifferentiate using the chain rule. Do not simplify.Correct simultanous application of chain and product ruleChain rule extravaganza - how to derive this?A puzzling “failure” of the Chain RuleOn the chain ruleChain rule when applying L'Hopital's ruleChain rule doubtHow to use the chain rule for change of variablePartial derivatives and normal derivative combined in the chain rule
$begingroup$
Why can I not apply the chain rule to a product in the following way.
If we have some product:
$$f(x)=a(x)b(x)$$
Consider the multiplication of b by a as another’s function so that:
$$f(b(x))=ab$$
So that
$fracdfdx = f’(b)b’(x)$
Something feels very wrong. But I can’t put my finger on it.
derivatives chain-rule
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why can I not apply the chain rule to a product in the following way.
If we have some product:
$$f(x)=a(x)b(x)$$
Consider the multiplication of b by a as another’s function so that:
$$f(b(x))=ab$$
So that
$fracdfdx = f’(b)b’(x)$
Something feels very wrong. But I can’t put my finger on it.
derivatives chain-rule
$endgroup$
8
$begingroup$
There may be a $g$ with $g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)$. But you probably don't want to call it "$f$".
$endgroup$
– David Mitra
May 17 at 14:58
2
$begingroup$
beginalign 2a(x)b(x)=a(x)^2+b(x)^2-(a(x)-b(x))^2 endalign And you know the derivative of $a(x)^2$ by chain rule.
$endgroup$
– Bach
May 17 at 15:02
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why can I not apply the chain rule to a product in the following way.
If we have some product:
$$f(x)=a(x)b(x)$$
Consider the multiplication of b by a as another’s function so that:
$$f(b(x))=ab$$
So that
$fracdfdx = f’(b)b’(x)$
Something feels very wrong. But I can’t put my finger on it.
derivatives chain-rule
$endgroup$
Why can I not apply the chain rule to a product in the following way.
If we have some product:
$$f(x)=a(x)b(x)$$
Consider the multiplication of b by a as another’s function so that:
$$f(b(x))=ab$$
So that
$fracdfdx = f’(b)b’(x)$
Something feels very wrong. But I can’t put my finger on it.
derivatives chain-rule
derivatives chain-rule
edited May 18 at 15:19
user21820
41k545166
41k545166
asked May 17 at 14:52
Jake RoseJake Rose
476
476
8
$begingroup$
There may be a $g$ with $g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)$. But you probably don't want to call it "$f$".
$endgroup$
– David Mitra
May 17 at 14:58
2
$begingroup$
beginalign 2a(x)b(x)=a(x)^2+b(x)^2-(a(x)-b(x))^2 endalign And you know the derivative of $a(x)^2$ by chain rule.
$endgroup$
– Bach
May 17 at 15:02
add a comment |
8
$begingroup$
There may be a $g$ with $g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)$. But you probably don't want to call it "$f$".
$endgroup$
– David Mitra
May 17 at 14:58
2
$begingroup$
beginalign 2a(x)b(x)=a(x)^2+b(x)^2-(a(x)-b(x))^2 endalign And you know the derivative of $a(x)^2$ by chain rule.
$endgroup$
– Bach
May 17 at 15:02
8
8
$begingroup$
There may be a $g$ with $g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)$. But you probably don't want to call it "$f$".
$endgroup$
– David Mitra
May 17 at 14:58
$begingroup$
There may be a $g$ with $g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)$. But you probably don't want to call it "$f$".
$endgroup$
– David Mitra
May 17 at 14:58
2
2
$begingroup$
beginalign 2a(x)b(x)=a(x)^2+b(x)^2-(a(x)-b(x))^2 endalign And you know the derivative of $a(x)^2$ by chain rule.
$endgroup$
– Bach
May 17 at 15:02
$begingroup$
beginalign 2a(x)b(x)=a(x)^2+b(x)^2-(a(x)-b(x))^2 endalign And you know the derivative of $a(x)^2$ by chain rule.
$endgroup$
– Bach
May 17 at 15:02
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Write $mu(u,v)=uv$. Then
$$
mu_1(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial u(u,v)= v,
quad
mu_2(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial v(u,v)= u
$$
Now $f(x)=mu(a(x),b(x))$ and so $$f'(x)=mu_1(a(x),b(x))a'(x)+mu_2(a(x),b(x))b'(x)=b(x)a'(x)+a(x)b'(x)$$
This is the multiplication rule using the chain rule.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't use the chain rule because this is not a composition. Just calling it one does not make it one. For example, suppose $a(x)=x+1$ and $b(x)=x^2$. Then your first line says
$$
f(x) = x^2(x+1) = x^3+ x^2
$$
so
$$
f(b(x)) = f(x^2) = (x^2)^3 + (x^2)^2
$$
so not the same as "$ab$".
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
3
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $f(x)=a(x)x$ (it looks as if this is what you have in mind), then $fbigl(b(x)bigr)$ is equal to $abigl(b(x)bigr)b(x)$, instead of $a(x)b(x)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Also re-interpreting as per David Mitra's comment, that you are looking for some function $g$ such that $g(b(x)) = a(x)b(x)$ (where $g$ is something different from $f(x) = a(x)b(x)$).
Your problem here is that then $a(x) = frac g(b(x))b(x)$. I.e., the value of $a(x)$ depends on that of $b(x)$. What happens when $b(x_1) = b(x_2)$ but $a(x_1) ne a(x_2)$? For example, suppose $b(x) = c$ for some constant $c$, but $a(x) = x$? Clearly no such $g$ can exist.
So you cannot turn every product into a composition of single variable functions. However, as lhf has pointed out, multiplication itself is a multivariate function, and the product rule is actually just an application of the multivariate chain rule.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Alternatively, if we know the chain rule and the derivative of the logarithm as well as the fact that $log(ab)=log(a)+log(b)$, we get that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= left(log(f(x))+log(g(x))right)'\
&= fracf'(x)f(x)+fracg'(x)g(x)
endalign
But we also have that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= fracleft(f(x)g(x)right)'f(x)g(x)
endalign
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the remark given by David Mitra in the comments, you are considering:
$$
g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)
$$
which implies we must have
$$
g(x)=a(b^-1(x))x
$$
Finding the derivative of this $g$ will be a bit messy.
$$
frac ddxg(x)=a'(b^-1(x))cdotfrac 1b'(b^-1(x))cdot x+a(b^-1(x))
$$
and so plugging in $b(x)$ and applying the chain rule gives us:
$$
beginalign
fracddxg(b(x))&=left(a'(x)cdotfrac 1b'(x)cdot b(x)+a(x)right)cdot b'(x)\
&=a'(x)b(x)+a(x)b'(x)
endalign
$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
1
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you can find such a composition $Acirc b = a(x)b(x)$, then the chain rule gives you the product rule. You can find $Acirc b$ just if b is invertible.
Because $a(x)$ and $b(x)$ are both functions of $x$, you might not be able to find a "multiplication function" $A$ that lets you write the product $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
This is because $A$ only sees the output of the function $b(x)$. It doesn't see what $x$ is. If it can't see what $x$ is (or figure it out based on the value of $b(x)$), then it can't compute $a(x)$ and so it can't compute $a(x)b(x)$.
When you can recover the value of $x$ from the value of $b(x)$, we say that $b$ is invertible.
If $b$ is invertible, then it has an inverse $b^-1$ which recovers the value of $x$. So, if $y=b(x)$ then $b^-1(y) = x$.
If $b$ is invertible, then you can define the function $A(y) equiv a(b^-1(y)) cdot y$.
Then notice that by definition, $A(b(x)) = a(b^-1(b(x))) cdot b(x) = a(x)b(x)$, exactly as we want it. We have written $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
When we take the derivative using the chain rule, we find that $fracddxA(b(x)) = a^prime(x)b(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)$, exactly as you want. Though because the definition of $A$ depends on a product, you either have to use the product rule anyways to differentiate it, or use the limit definition of the derivative to compute it.
In multivariable calculus, the chain rule directly gives you the product rule.
What you might be looking for, after all, is a way to use the chain rule as a fundamental tool for proving all of the other rules such as the product rule. You can do this with multivariable calculus.
The multiplication function is $M(u,v) = uv$. Its derivative is $DM(u,v) = langle v, urangle$.
If your two functions are $a(x)$ and $b(x)$, then their product is $g(x) = a(x)b(x)$.
We can write $g$ as a composition: $g(x) = M(a(x), b(x))$.
The derivative of $g$ is therefore the derivative of $M(a(x), b(x))$---and we can compute this latter derivative using the chain rule.
By the chain rule,
begineqnarray*
Dleft[M(a(x),b(x))right] &= DM( a(x), b(x))bullet Dlangle a(x), b(x)rangle\
&= langle b(x), a(x)rangle bullet langle a^prime(x), b^prime(x)rangle\
&= b(x)a^prime(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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7 Answers
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7 Answers
7
active
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votes
$begingroup$
Write $mu(u,v)=uv$. Then
$$
mu_1(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial u(u,v)= v,
quad
mu_2(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial v(u,v)= u
$$
Now $f(x)=mu(a(x),b(x))$ and so $$f'(x)=mu_1(a(x),b(x))a'(x)+mu_2(a(x),b(x))b'(x)=b(x)a'(x)+a(x)b'(x)$$
This is the multiplication rule using the chain rule.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Write $mu(u,v)=uv$. Then
$$
mu_1(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial u(u,v)= v,
quad
mu_2(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial v(u,v)= u
$$
Now $f(x)=mu(a(x),b(x))$ and so $$f'(x)=mu_1(a(x),b(x))a'(x)+mu_2(a(x),b(x))b'(x)=b(x)a'(x)+a(x)b'(x)$$
This is the multiplication rule using the chain rule.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Write $mu(u,v)=uv$. Then
$$
mu_1(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial u(u,v)= v,
quad
mu_2(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial v(u,v)= u
$$
Now $f(x)=mu(a(x),b(x))$ and so $$f'(x)=mu_1(a(x),b(x))a'(x)+mu_2(a(x),b(x))b'(x)=b(x)a'(x)+a(x)b'(x)$$
This is the multiplication rule using the chain rule.
$endgroup$
Write $mu(u,v)=uv$. Then
$$
mu_1(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial u(u,v)= v,
quad
mu_2(u,v) = fracpartialmupartial v(u,v)= u
$$
Now $f(x)=mu(a(x),b(x))$ and so $$f'(x)=mu_1(a(x),b(x))a'(x)+mu_2(a(x),b(x))b'(x)=b(x)a'(x)+a(x)b'(x)$$
This is the multiplication rule using the chain rule.
answered May 17 at 15:02
lhflhf
170k11174411
170k11174411
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't use the chain rule because this is not a composition. Just calling it one does not make it one. For example, suppose $a(x)=x+1$ and $b(x)=x^2$. Then your first line says
$$
f(x) = x^2(x+1) = x^3+ x^2
$$
so
$$
f(b(x)) = f(x^2) = (x^2)^3 + (x^2)^2
$$
so not the same as "$ab$".
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
3
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't use the chain rule because this is not a composition. Just calling it one does not make it one. For example, suppose $a(x)=x+1$ and $b(x)=x^2$. Then your first line says
$$
f(x) = x^2(x+1) = x^3+ x^2
$$
so
$$
f(b(x)) = f(x^2) = (x^2)^3 + (x^2)^2
$$
so not the same as "$ab$".
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
3
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can't use the chain rule because this is not a composition. Just calling it one does not make it one. For example, suppose $a(x)=x+1$ and $b(x)=x^2$. Then your first line says
$$
f(x) = x^2(x+1) = x^3+ x^2
$$
so
$$
f(b(x)) = f(x^2) = (x^2)^3 + (x^2)^2
$$
so not the same as "$ab$".
$endgroup$
You can't use the chain rule because this is not a composition. Just calling it one does not make it one. For example, suppose $a(x)=x+1$ and $b(x)=x^2$. Then your first line says
$$
f(x) = x^2(x+1) = x^3+ x^2
$$
so
$$
f(b(x)) = f(x^2) = (x^2)^3 + (x^2)^2
$$
so not the same as "$ab$".
answered May 17 at 15:00
Ethan BolkerEthan Bolker
49.6k557127
49.6k557127
1
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
3
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
3
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
1
1
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
$begingroup$
Is there a way to write a product of functions as a composition?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:14
3
3
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
$begingroup$
Short answer: no. Longer answer: yes, but you have to make things pretty convoluted. See the answer from @lbf . In general, try to think more about the meaning of the derivative as a rate of change, less about which rule to apply. See math.stackexchange.com/questions/3227026/derivative-rules/…
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
May 17 at 17:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $f(x)=a(x)x$ (it looks as if this is what you have in mind), then $fbigl(b(x)bigr)$ is equal to $abigl(b(x)bigr)b(x)$, instead of $a(x)b(x)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $f(x)=a(x)x$ (it looks as if this is what you have in mind), then $fbigl(b(x)bigr)$ is equal to $abigl(b(x)bigr)b(x)$, instead of $a(x)b(x)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $f(x)=a(x)x$ (it looks as if this is what you have in mind), then $fbigl(b(x)bigr)$ is equal to $abigl(b(x)bigr)b(x)$, instead of $a(x)b(x)$.
$endgroup$
If $f(x)=a(x)x$ (it looks as if this is what you have in mind), then $fbigl(b(x)bigr)$ is equal to $abigl(b(x)bigr)b(x)$, instead of $a(x)b(x)$.
answered May 17 at 15:00
José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos
188k24145261
188k24145261
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Also re-interpreting as per David Mitra's comment, that you are looking for some function $g$ such that $g(b(x)) = a(x)b(x)$ (where $g$ is something different from $f(x) = a(x)b(x)$).
Your problem here is that then $a(x) = frac g(b(x))b(x)$. I.e., the value of $a(x)$ depends on that of $b(x)$. What happens when $b(x_1) = b(x_2)$ but $a(x_1) ne a(x_2)$? For example, suppose $b(x) = c$ for some constant $c$, but $a(x) = x$? Clearly no such $g$ can exist.
So you cannot turn every product into a composition of single variable functions. However, as lhf has pointed out, multiplication itself is a multivariate function, and the product rule is actually just an application of the multivariate chain rule.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Also re-interpreting as per David Mitra's comment, that you are looking for some function $g$ such that $g(b(x)) = a(x)b(x)$ (where $g$ is something different from $f(x) = a(x)b(x)$).
Your problem here is that then $a(x) = frac g(b(x))b(x)$. I.e., the value of $a(x)$ depends on that of $b(x)$. What happens when $b(x_1) = b(x_2)$ but $a(x_1) ne a(x_2)$? For example, suppose $b(x) = c$ for some constant $c$, but $a(x) = x$? Clearly no such $g$ can exist.
So you cannot turn every product into a composition of single variable functions. However, as lhf has pointed out, multiplication itself is a multivariate function, and the product rule is actually just an application of the multivariate chain rule.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Also re-interpreting as per David Mitra's comment, that you are looking for some function $g$ such that $g(b(x)) = a(x)b(x)$ (where $g$ is something different from $f(x) = a(x)b(x)$).
Your problem here is that then $a(x) = frac g(b(x))b(x)$. I.e., the value of $a(x)$ depends on that of $b(x)$. What happens when $b(x_1) = b(x_2)$ but $a(x_1) ne a(x_2)$? For example, suppose $b(x) = c$ for some constant $c$, but $a(x) = x$? Clearly no such $g$ can exist.
So you cannot turn every product into a composition of single variable functions. However, as lhf has pointed out, multiplication itself is a multivariate function, and the product rule is actually just an application of the multivariate chain rule.
$endgroup$
Also re-interpreting as per David Mitra's comment, that you are looking for some function $g$ such that $g(b(x)) = a(x)b(x)$ (where $g$ is something different from $f(x) = a(x)b(x)$).
Your problem here is that then $a(x) = frac g(b(x))b(x)$. I.e., the value of $a(x)$ depends on that of $b(x)$. What happens when $b(x_1) = b(x_2)$ but $a(x_1) ne a(x_2)$? For example, suppose $b(x) = c$ for some constant $c$, but $a(x) = x$? Clearly no such $g$ can exist.
So you cannot turn every product into a composition of single variable functions. However, as lhf has pointed out, multiplication itself is a multivariate function, and the product rule is actually just an application of the multivariate chain rule.
answered May 17 at 19:59
Paul SinclairPaul Sinclair
21.3k21644
21.3k21644
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Alternatively, if we know the chain rule and the derivative of the logarithm as well as the fact that $log(ab)=log(a)+log(b)$, we get that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= left(log(f(x))+log(g(x))right)'\
&= fracf'(x)f(x)+fracg'(x)g(x)
endalign
But we also have that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= fracleft(f(x)g(x)right)'f(x)g(x)
endalign
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Alternatively, if we know the chain rule and the derivative of the logarithm as well as the fact that $log(ab)=log(a)+log(b)$, we get that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= left(log(f(x))+log(g(x))right)'\
&= fracf'(x)f(x)+fracg'(x)g(x)
endalign
But we also have that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= fracleft(f(x)g(x)right)'f(x)g(x)
endalign
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Alternatively, if we know the chain rule and the derivative of the logarithm as well as the fact that $log(ab)=log(a)+log(b)$, we get that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= left(log(f(x))+log(g(x))right)'\
&= fracf'(x)f(x)+fracg'(x)g(x)
endalign
But we also have that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= fracleft(f(x)g(x)right)'f(x)g(x)
endalign
$endgroup$
Alternatively, if we know the chain rule and the derivative of the logarithm as well as the fact that $log(ab)=log(a)+log(b)$, we get that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= left(log(f(x))+log(g(x))right)'\
&= fracf'(x)f(x)+fracg'(x)g(x)
endalign
But we also have that
beginalign
left(log(f(x)g(x)right)
&= fracleft(f(x)g(x)right)'f(x)g(x)
endalign
answered May 17 at 21:09
BotondBotond
7,38331035
7,38331035
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the remark given by David Mitra in the comments, you are considering:
$$
g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)
$$
which implies we must have
$$
g(x)=a(b^-1(x))x
$$
Finding the derivative of this $g$ will be a bit messy.
$$
frac ddxg(x)=a'(b^-1(x))cdotfrac 1b'(b^-1(x))cdot x+a(b^-1(x))
$$
and so plugging in $b(x)$ and applying the chain rule gives us:
$$
beginalign
fracddxg(b(x))&=left(a'(x)cdotfrac 1b'(x)cdot b(x)+a(x)right)cdot b'(x)\
&=a'(x)b(x)+a(x)b'(x)
endalign
$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
1
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the remark given by David Mitra in the comments, you are considering:
$$
g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)
$$
which implies we must have
$$
g(x)=a(b^-1(x))x
$$
Finding the derivative of this $g$ will be a bit messy.
$$
frac ddxg(x)=a'(b^-1(x))cdotfrac 1b'(b^-1(x))cdot x+a(b^-1(x))
$$
and so plugging in $b(x)$ and applying the chain rule gives us:
$$
beginalign
fracddxg(b(x))&=left(a'(x)cdotfrac 1b'(x)cdot b(x)+a(x)right)cdot b'(x)\
&=a'(x)b(x)+a(x)b'(x)
endalign
$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
1
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Based on the remark given by David Mitra in the comments, you are considering:
$$
g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)
$$
which implies we must have
$$
g(x)=a(b^-1(x))x
$$
Finding the derivative of this $g$ will be a bit messy.
$$
frac ddxg(x)=a'(b^-1(x))cdotfrac 1b'(b^-1(x))cdot x+a(b^-1(x))
$$
and so plugging in $b(x)$ and applying the chain rule gives us:
$$
beginalign
fracddxg(b(x))&=left(a'(x)cdotfrac 1b'(x)cdot b(x)+a(x)right)cdot b'(x)\
&=a'(x)b(x)+a(x)b'(x)
endalign
$$
$endgroup$
Based on the remark given by David Mitra in the comments, you are considering:
$$
g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)
$$
which implies we must have
$$
g(x)=a(b^-1(x))x
$$
Finding the derivative of this $g$ will be a bit messy.
$$
frac ddxg(x)=a'(b^-1(x))cdotfrac 1b'(b^-1(x))cdot x+a(b^-1(x))
$$
and so plugging in $b(x)$ and applying the chain rule gives us:
$$
beginalign
fracddxg(b(x))&=left(a'(x)cdotfrac 1b'(x)cdot b(x)+a(x)right)cdot b'(x)\
&=a'(x)b(x)+a(x)b'(x)
endalign
$$
answered May 17 at 15:20
StringString
14k32758
14k32758
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
1
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
1
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
$begingroup$
Have you not inherently used the product rule when you differentiated g?
$endgroup$
– Jake Rose
May 17 at 16:12
1
1
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
$begingroup$
@JakeRose: Explicitly I have indeed. Then I might not be sure what you were asking, sorry for that.
$endgroup$
– String
May 17 at 16:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you can find such a composition $Acirc b = a(x)b(x)$, then the chain rule gives you the product rule. You can find $Acirc b$ just if b is invertible.
Because $a(x)$ and $b(x)$ are both functions of $x$, you might not be able to find a "multiplication function" $A$ that lets you write the product $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
This is because $A$ only sees the output of the function $b(x)$. It doesn't see what $x$ is. If it can't see what $x$ is (or figure it out based on the value of $b(x)$), then it can't compute $a(x)$ and so it can't compute $a(x)b(x)$.
When you can recover the value of $x$ from the value of $b(x)$, we say that $b$ is invertible.
If $b$ is invertible, then it has an inverse $b^-1$ which recovers the value of $x$. So, if $y=b(x)$ then $b^-1(y) = x$.
If $b$ is invertible, then you can define the function $A(y) equiv a(b^-1(y)) cdot y$.
Then notice that by definition, $A(b(x)) = a(b^-1(b(x))) cdot b(x) = a(x)b(x)$, exactly as we want it. We have written $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
When we take the derivative using the chain rule, we find that $fracddxA(b(x)) = a^prime(x)b(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)$, exactly as you want. Though because the definition of $A$ depends on a product, you either have to use the product rule anyways to differentiate it, or use the limit definition of the derivative to compute it.
In multivariable calculus, the chain rule directly gives you the product rule.
What you might be looking for, after all, is a way to use the chain rule as a fundamental tool for proving all of the other rules such as the product rule. You can do this with multivariable calculus.
The multiplication function is $M(u,v) = uv$. Its derivative is $DM(u,v) = langle v, urangle$.
If your two functions are $a(x)$ and $b(x)$, then their product is $g(x) = a(x)b(x)$.
We can write $g$ as a composition: $g(x) = M(a(x), b(x))$.
The derivative of $g$ is therefore the derivative of $M(a(x), b(x))$---and we can compute this latter derivative using the chain rule.
By the chain rule,
begineqnarray*
Dleft[M(a(x),b(x))right] &= DM( a(x), b(x))bullet Dlangle a(x), b(x)rangle\
&= langle b(x), a(x)rangle bullet langle a^prime(x), b^prime(x)rangle\
&= b(x)a^prime(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you can find such a composition $Acirc b = a(x)b(x)$, then the chain rule gives you the product rule. You can find $Acirc b$ just if b is invertible.
Because $a(x)$ and $b(x)$ are both functions of $x$, you might not be able to find a "multiplication function" $A$ that lets you write the product $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
This is because $A$ only sees the output of the function $b(x)$. It doesn't see what $x$ is. If it can't see what $x$ is (or figure it out based on the value of $b(x)$), then it can't compute $a(x)$ and so it can't compute $a(x)b(x)$.
When you can recover the value of $x$ from the value of $b(x)$, we say that $b$ is invertible.
If $b$ is invertible, then it has an inverse $b^-1$ which recovers the value of $x$. So, if $y=b(x)$ then $b^-1(y) = x$.
If $b$ is invertible, then you can define the function $A(y) equiv a(b^-1(y)) cdot y$.
Then notice that by definition, $A(b(x)) = a(b^-1(b(x))) cdot b(x) = a(x)b(x)$, exactly as we want it. We have written $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
When we take the derivative using the chain rule, we find that $fracddxA(b(x)) = a^prime(x)b(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)$, exactly as you want. Though because the definition of $A$ depends on a product, you either have to use the product rule anyways to differentiate it, or use the limit definition of the derivative to compute it.
In multivariable calculus, the chain rule directly gives you the product rule.
What you might be looking for, after all, is a way to use the chain rule as a fundamental tool for proving all of the other rules such as the product rule. You can do this with multivariable calculus.
The multiplication function is $M(u,v) = uv$. Its derivative is $DM(u,v) = langle v, urangle$.
If your two functions are $a(x)$ and $b(x)$, then their product is $g(x) = a(x)b(x)$.
We can write $g$ as a composition: $g(x) = M(a(x), b(x))$.
The derivative of $g$ is therefore the derivative of $M(a(x), b(x))$---and we can compute this latter derivative using the chain rule.
By the chain rule,
begineqnarray*
Dleft[M(a(x),b(x))right] &= DM( a(x), b(x))bullet Dlangle a(x), b(x)rangle\
&= langle b(x), a(x)rangle bullet langle a^prime(x), b^prime(x)rangle\
&= b(x)a^prime(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you can find such a composition $Acirc b = a(x)b(x)$, then the chain rule gives you the product rule. You can find $Acirc b$ just if b is invertible.
Because $a(x)$ and $b(x)$ are both functions of $x$, you might not be able to find a "multiplication function" $A$ that lets you write the product $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
This is because $A$ only sees the output of the function $b(x)$. It doesn't see what $x$ is. If it can't see what $x$ is (or figure it out based on the value of $b(x)$), then it can't compute $a(x)$ and so it can't compute $a(x)b(x)$.
When you can recover the value of $x$ from the value of $b(x)$, we say that $b$ is invertible.
If $b$ is invertible, then it has an inverse $b^-1$ which recovers the value of $x$. So, if $y=b(x)$ then $b^-1(y) = x$.
If $b$ is invertible, then you can define the function $A(y) equiv a(b^-1(y)) cdot y$.
Then notice that by definition, $A(b(x)) = a(b^-1(b(x))) cdot b(x) = a(x)b(x)$, exactly as we want it. We have written $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
When we take the derivative using the chain rule, we find that $fracddxA(b(x)) = a^prime(x)b(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)$, exactly as you want. Though because the definition of $A$ depends on a product, you either have to use the product rule anyways to differentiate it, or use the limit definition of the derivative to compute it.
In multivariable calculus, the chain rule directly gives you the product rule.
What you might be looking for, after all, is a way to use the chain rule as a fundamental tool for proving all of the other rules such as the product rule. You can do this with multivariable calculus.
The multiplication function is $M(u,v) = uv$. Its derivative is $DM(u,v) = langle v, urangle$.
If your two functions are $a(x)$ and $b(x)$, then their product is $g(x) = a(x)b(x)$.
We can write $g$ as a composition: $g(x) = M(a(x), b(x))$.
The derivative of $g$ is therefore the derivative of $M(a(x), b(x))$---and we can compute this latter derivative using the chain rule.
By the chain rule,
begineqnarray*
Dleft[M(a(x),b(x))right] &= DM( a(x), b(x))bullet Dlangle a(x), b(x)rangle\
&= langle b(x), a(x)rangle bullet langle a^prime(x), b^prime(x)rangle\
&= b(x)a^prime(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)
endeqnarray*
$endgroup$
If you can find such a composition $Acirc b = a(x)b(x)$, then the chain rule gives you the product rule. You can find $Acirc b$ just if b is invertible.
Because $a(x)$ and $b(x)$ are both functions of $x$, you might not be able to find a "multiplication function" $A$ that lets you write the product $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
This is because $A$ only sees the output of the function $b(x)$. It doesn't see what $x$ is. If it can't see what $x$ is (or figure it out based on the value of $b(x)$), then it can't compute $a(x)$ and so it can't compute $a(x)b(x)$.
When you can recover the value of $x$ from the value of $b(x)$, we say that $b$ is invertible.
If $b$ is invertible, then it has an inverse $b^-1$ which recovers the value of $x$. So, if $y=b(x)$ then $b^-1(y) = x$.
If $b$ is invertible, then you can define the function $A(y) equiv a(b^-1(y)) cdot y$.
Then notice that by definition, $A(b(x)) = a(b^-1(b(x))) cdot b(x) = a(x)b(x)$, exactly as we want it. We have written $a(x)b(x)$ as a chain rule composition $A(b(x))$.
When we take the derivative using the chain rule, we find that $fracddxA(b(x)) = a^prime(x)b(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)$, exactly as you want. Though because the definition of $A$ depends on a product, you either have to use the product rule anyways to differentiate it, or use the limit definition of the derivative to compute it.
In multivariable calculus, the chain rule directly gives you the product rule.
What you might be looking for, after all, is a way to use the chain rule as a fundamental tool for proving all of the other rules such as the product rule. You can do this with multivariable calculus.
The multiplication function is $M(u,v) = uv$. Its derivative is $DM(u,v) = langle v, urangle$.
If your two functions are $a(x)$ and $b(x)$, then their product is $g(x) = a(x)b(x)$.
We can write $g$ as a composition: $g(x) = M(a(x), b(x))$.
The derivative of $g$ is therefore the derivative of $M(a(x), b(x))$---and we can compute this latter derivative using the chain rule.
By the chain rule,
begineqnarray*
Dleft[M(a(x),b(x))right] &= DM( a(x), b(x))bullet Dlangle a(x), b(x)rangle\
&= langle b(x), a(x)rangle bullet langle a^prime(x), b^prime(x)rangle\
&= b(x)a^prime(x) + a(x)b^prime(x)
endeqnarray*
answered May 22 at 6:50
user326210user326210
10.2k1027
10.2k1027
add a comment |
add a comment |
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8
$begingroup$
There may be a $g$ with $g(b(x))=a(x)b(x)$. But you probably don't want to call it "$f$".
$endgroup$
– David Mitra
May 17 at 14:58
2
$begingroup$
beginalign 2a(x)b(x)=a(x)^2+b(x)^2-(a(x)-b(x))^2 endalign And you know the derivative of $a(x)^2$ by chain rule.
$endgroup$
– Bach
May 17 at 15:02