Do Captain America's actions at the end of Endgame contradict what we've heard before in the film? [duplicate]Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?Did Steve come back on his own in “Avengers: Endgame”, and if so, how?What is Captain America's religion?What is Captain America's worst fear?Why Didn't The Winter Soldier Keep Captain America's Shield?What else is Captain America's shield made from?What is Captain America's true allegiance?What was Captain America's running path?How was the star design formed on Captain America's shield?What happened to the magnetic return for Captain America's shield?Captain America's status with the US militaryWhy does Captain America's costume change in all the movies?

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Do Captain America's actions at the end of Endgame contradict what we've heard before in the film? [duplicate]


Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?Did Steve come back on his own in “Avengers: Endgame”, and if so, how?What is Captain America's religion?What is Captain America's worst fear?Why Didn't The Winter Soldier Keep Captain America's Shield?What else is Captain America's shield made from?What is Captain America's true allegiance?What was Captain America's running path?How was the star design formed on Captain America's shield?What happened to the magnetic return for Captain America's shield?Captain America's status with the US militaryWhy does Captain America's costume change in all the movies?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








9
















This question already has an answer here:



  • Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?

    11 answers



A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?











share|improve this question















marked as duplicate by Jenayah, Dave Johnson, TheLethalCarrot, DavidW, amflare Apr 29 at 19:41


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.













  • 3





    Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    Apr 29 at 6:14











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Apr 29 at 8:02






  • 4





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    Apr 29 at 9:13






  • 2





    “Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc..."” — Scott suggests that, prompting Banner to explain that those rules are from movies and do not apply to the cold hard reality of time travel in the MCU.

    – Paul D. Waite
    Apr 29 at 16:38











  • @PaulD.Waite: Yes. The others basically missed the point. You can diddle with the past and it will affect the future of that new timeline. That's the only reason the stones should be returned -- so that the other timelines aren't a big steaming mess for the people who live there.

    – ThePopMachine
    Apr 29 at 16:45

















9
















This question already has an answer here:



  • Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?

    11 answers



A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?











share|improve this question















marked as duplicate by Jenayah, Dave Johnson, TheLethalCarrot, DavidW, amflare Apr 29 at 19:41


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.













  • 3





    Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    Apr 29 at 6:14











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Apr 29 at 8:02






  • 4





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    Apr 29 at 9:13






  • 2





    “Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc..."” — Scott suggests that, prompting Banner to explain that those rules are from movies and do not apply to the cold hard reality of time travel in the MCU.

    – Paul D. Waite
    Apr 29 at 16:38











  • @PaulD.Waite: Yes. The others basically missed the point. You can diddle with the past and it will affect the future of that new timeline. That's the only reason the stones should be returned -- so that the other timelines aren't a big steaming mess for the people who live there.

    – ThePopMachine
    Apr 29 at 16:45













9












9








9


2







This question already has an answer here:



  • Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?

    11 answers



A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?











share|improve this question

















This question already has an answer here:



  • Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?

    11 answers



A key plot device of avengers: Endgame is




Time travel. A central point is that they have to be very careful with time travel, as explained by some team members when Rhodes asked why can't they simply go back in time and kill baby Thanos. Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc...". When Hulk meets The Ancient One, she explains that timelines and realities can be damaged, etc.



The only thing they can really pull off without messing up history is retrieving the Infinity Stones, using them in the present, and then returning them to the proper place in history to avoid any disruptions to the time line.




But then in the final scene, we discover that Captain America




went back in time and had the life that he always wanted to have with Agent Carter.




Doesn't this contradict the above mentioned dangers




of time travel? Wouldn't his getting together with Agent Carter at the very least completely alter the history of the S.S.R and S.H.I.E.L.D (if not the entire U.S military) and hence completely mess up the time line?






This question already has an answer here:



  • Did Avengers: Endgame break its own rules?

    11 answers







marvel marvel-cinematic-universe captain-america avengers-endgame






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 29 at 19:02









Machavity

26k581145




26k581145










asked Apr 29 at 6:06









Alex KinmanAlex Kinman

1,0011624




1,0011624




marked as duplicate by Jenayah, Dave Johnson, TheLethalCarrot, DavidW, amflare Apr 29 at 19:41


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by Jenayah, Dave Johnson, TheLethalCarrot, DavidW, amflare Apr 29 at 19:41


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









  • 3





    Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    Apr 29 at 6:14











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Apr 29 at 8:02






  • 4





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    Apr 29 at 9:13






  • 2





    “Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc..."” — Scott suggests that, prompting Banner to explain that those rules are from movies and do not apply to the cold hard reality of time travel in the MCU.

    – Paul D. Waite
    Apr 29 at 16:38











  • @PaulD.Waite: Yes. The others basically missed the point. You can diddle with the past and it will affect the future of that new timeline. That's the only reason the stones should be returned -- so that the other timelines aren't a big steaming mess for the people who live there.

    – ThePopMachine
    Apr 29 at 16:45












  • 3





    Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

    – Valorum
    Apr 29 at 6:14











  • You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

    – TheLethalCarrot
    Apr 29 at 8:02






  • 4





    @Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

    – Chris
    Apr 29 at 9:13






  • 2





    “Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc..."” — Scott suggests that, prompting Banner to explain that those rules are from movies and do not apply to the cold hard reality of time travel in the MCU.

    – Paul D. Waite
    Apr 29 at 16:38











  • @PaulD.Waite: Yes. The others basically missed the point. You can diddle with the past and it will affect the future of that new timeline. That's the only reason the stones should be returned -- so that the other timelines aren't a big steaming mess for the people who live there.

    – ThePopMachine
    Apr 29 at 16:45







3




3





Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

– Valorum
Apr 29 at 6:14





Apparently only diddling with the time stones has the effect of creating new timelines. The presence of a single human on one planet isn't sufficient

– Valorum
Apr 29 at 6:14













You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 29 at 8:02





You e also misunderstood time travel, changing the past will not change the future.

– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 29 at 8:02




4




4





@Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

– Chris
Apr 29 at 9:13





@Valorum There are obvious flaws in the One Timeline theory, e.g. Quill getting knocked out, the space stone removed from the tesseract, Nebula twist, ... I think the Ancient One was talking about one special case, not about timelines in general.

– Chris
Apr 29 at 9:13




2




2





“Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc..."” — Scott suggests that, prompting Banner to explain that those rules are from movies and do not apply to the cold hard reality of time travel in the MCU.

– Paul D. Waite
Apr 29 at 16:38





“Someone mentions that "all the rules apply, no interaction with our past selves, no trying to change the future, etc..."” — Scott suggests that, prompting Banner to explain that those rules are from movies and do not apply to the cold hard reality of time travel in the MCU.

– Paul D. Waite
Apr 29 at 16:38













@PaulD.Waite: Yes. The others basically missed the point. You can diddle with the past and it will affect the future of that new timeline. That's the only reason the stones should be returned -- so that the other timelines aren't a big steaming mess for the people who live there.

– ThePopMachine
Apr 29 at 16:45





@PaulD.Waite: Yes. The others basically missed the point. You can diddle with the past and it will affect the future of that new timeline. That's the only reason the stones should be returned -- so that the other timelines aren't a big steaming mess for the people who live there.

– ThePopMachine
Apr 29 at 16:45










4 Answers
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Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



So, you're looking at a closed loop.




Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    Apr 29 at 7:08






  • 5





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    Apr 29 at 8:00






  • 3





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    Apr 29 at 12:58






  • 3





    I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    Apr 29 at 12:58






  • 6





    Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    Apr 29 at 13:03


















3














I do not think Captain America lives out his life in our reality. Similar to how the stones were taken in a different reality he just went there and messed further with their timeline.



Here are the reasons I think this must be true.



  1. Anything else would go against all the rules of time-travel established in the movie

  2. Captain America knows Becky is alive and SHIELD is interrelated by Hydra. I am sure that in his new reality he fixes both of these things, but not in ours.

Afterwards he comes back to us by some means. Maybe he gets more Pim [particles from his version of Dr Pim at some point. Maybe the Sorcerer Supreme helps him. He meets her to give back the Time Stone.



The only question is why does he not come back to the platform? That must be just for dramatic effect. He had a lifetime to plan this moment.



EDIT:



Before anyone says that Cap would not mess with the timeline, if he did go back to our time, he clearly has shown that he does not care about it. If he risked changing something just for himself, he defiantly would have changed things to stop his best friend from being tortured.






share|improve this answer
































    1














    Confusing situation




    This situation is confusing because Endgame uses a version of time
    travel that's not often seen in science fiction, especially movies or
    television. Endgames time travel is based on the multi universe
    theory and isn't really time travel, it's more like jumping to a
    universe that's running a bit behind your own




    How it works




    This version of time travel is the one used in the book Timeline
    written by the late Michael Crichton. I highly recommend it, and it
    does a very good job of explaining how multi universe "time travel"
    works. It's also a movie Timeline Movie, but if I remember
    correctly they screw up how Crichton's time travel works.




    What that means in endgame




    So a short explanation of the time travel in Endgame. When the team
    goes back to 2012 they didn't travel back in time in their own
    universe, they traveled to a different universe that happens to be
    identical to the one they started from, except it's 7 years earlier
    there. This is how removing the stones from that time can't effect
    the present in the original universe. Interestingly this means that
    the stones taken from Asgard and the ones that Rhodes, Nebula, Barton,
    and Natasha take are from different universes as well. So one
    universe only loses a max of 2 stones (note that Tony and Cap get the
    Tesseract from a different universe).




    Answering your Question




    Now that's out of the way, what's going on with old Captain America. This is >!where it gets a bit tricky. As Keith Morrison mentioned in his answer Peggy >!Carters husband is never named in previous films. Which means that the old >!Captain America seen in Endgame was probably her husband all along in the >!movie universe and avoided notice as Keith describes. However this is not a >!closed loop. Old Captain America is from a different universe. One that was >!exactly identical to the movie universe but ~70 years ahead of the one in the >!movie. In fact if the characters were to check his "quantum signature" or >!some such thing they'd probably be able to identify he wasn't from the movie >!universe.


    The Cap who went back in time will never return to the movie universe. He'll >!live out his life in the universe he jumped to for Peggy.




    His gift




    Regarding the shield that old Captain America has with him. Perhaps in the >!universe he came from it either wasn't destroyed or was rebuilt before he went >!back, so he took it with him when he returned the stones. Of course he >!wouldn't know that it was destroyed and not present in the movie universe.




    What banner mentions




    To tie this back to what Banner said earlier in the movie about killing baby >!Thanos. He was right and wrong. They could kill baby Thanos and stop the >!snap, it just wouldn't be in their universe. In fact they could spend years >!committing baby Thanos genocide in many other universes and saving them from >!the snap, but never their own. Of course that might have other undesirable >!outcomes for those universes, for instance if Thanos never existed, would the >!Guardians of the Galaxy have formed? And if they didn't could Quill of >!stopped his father Ego? All life becoming Ego is arguably worse than the >!snap.




    end spoilers






    share|improve this answer

























    • Yeah this explains it well.

      – SeanR
      May 3 at 5:04


















    1














    After some thought about this, my personal theory is that




    The elderly Captain America is from a different (though similar) timeline




    We know that




    the timeline Captain America went back to already has changes made to it that simply returning the infinity stones won't change (Loki's escape being the most obvious, but also things like Peter Quill being knocked out, Thor's hammer being pulled away from him while on Asgard, or HYDRA agents hearing Cap say "Hail Hydra"). But these changes are all relatively minor - they won't cause the millions of deaths that the Ancient One warned would result from actually removing an infinity stone from the timeline.




    So,




    that timeline will be slightly altered, but its events will largely be the same. Thanos or someone similar will still gather the stones, and in 2019 heros will likely travel back in time themselves to set things right. This will change events in other ways, creating yet another timeline slightly altered from their own. In essence, we see a cycle of slightly-different timelines being forked off over and over.




    But




    how do we know our timeline is the first one in the cycle? More likely, heroes from years the future came back to this one, stealing the infinity stones and returning them, and in doing so changed things in subtle ways from their "original" timeline. Maybe in their timeline Yondu's still alive, or Vision is monochrome, or heck, maybe the earth was saved at some point by a talking duck from outer space.




    The main point here is




    the elderly Steve we see at the end is from that timeline, and has come back to our, forked timeline to live out his life, just like our Steve went back to the newly-forked timeline where Loki escaped. This is consistent with the MCU's rules of time travel - you still can't change your present, only create alternate timelines. But since people in the alternate timelines can themselves go back in time, there's no reason not to think that we were in an "alternate timeline" to begin with.




    To quote another franchise,




    All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.







    share|improve this answer























    • This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

      – SeanR
      May 3 at 5:00

















    4 Answers
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    4 Answers
    4






    active

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    active

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    31














    Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



    First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



    Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



    So, you're looking at a closed loop.




    Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




    So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




    He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




    Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




    his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      That summarises it well!

      – Stark07
      Apr 29 at 7:08






    • 5





      Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

      – Dhon Joe
      Apr 29 at 8:00






    • 3





      I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

      – Goose
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 3





      I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

      – Borgh
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 6





      Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

      – David Mulder
      Apr 29 at 13:03















    31














    Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



    First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



    Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



    So, you're looking at a closed loop.




    Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




    So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




    He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




    Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




    his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







    share|improve this answer




















    • 2





      That summarises it well!

      – Stark07
      Apr 29 at 7:08






    • 5





      Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

      – Dhon Joe
      Apr 29 at 8:00






    • 3





      I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

      – Goose
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 3





      I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

      – Borgh
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 6





      Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

      – David Mulder
      Apr 29 at 13:03













    31












    31








    31







    Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



    First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



    Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



    So, you're looking at a closed loop.




    Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




    So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




    He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




    Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




    his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.







    share|improve this answer















    Not necessarily. Two things to bear in mind:



    First, it was revealed that Peggy Carter had been married sometime after World War 2, but her husband was, notably, not named nor was he seen at her funeral, not was it ever mentioned if he was still living or not.



    Second, there's really been nothing shown about SHIELD and Carter from the 1950s to the 1990s, aside from brief flashbacks and references.



    So, you're looking at a closed loop.




    Rogers returns the Infinity Stones but he doesn't go back to right after his disappearance in 1945; he goes back sometime later, after the years shown in the Agent Carter series, because he knows what she was up to during those years and that his being missing is part of the reason she did the things she did, and what she did was important for events later. Then he shows up, say, in 1950 or so. Maybe he tells her the truth, maybe he just tells her he miraculously survived and just made his way back to civilization from the crash, but he wants to get away from the life and retire.




    So he assumes a false ID and marries her.




    He knows about HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD, but doesn't say anything because he knows events have to play out, and he carefully plays the role of husband not involved with the secret agent life.




    Peggy starts developing Alzheimer's and is well into the dementia stage when




    his past self, still frozen in ice, is found. At that point, he has to be careful not cross paths with his younger self, so he avoids visiting her when he knows his younger self will be there, sits quietly in the back at her funeral, and then waits to reveal himself to Bucky and Sam after his younger self has made the jump back in time.








    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Apr 29 at 6:42

























    answered Apr 29 at 6:35









    Keith MorrisonKeith Morrison

    10k12035




    10k12035







    • 2





      That summarises it well!

      – Stark07
      Apr 29 at 7:08






    • 5





      Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

      – Dhon Joe
      Apr 29 at 8:00






    • 3





      I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

      – Goose
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 3





      I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

      – Borgh
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 6





      Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

      – David Mulder
      Apr 29 at 13:03












    • 2





      That summarises it well!

      – Stark07
      Apr 29 at 7:08






    • 5





      Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

      – Dhon Joe
      Apr 29 at 8:00






    • 3





      I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

      – Goose
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 3





      I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

      – Borgh
      Apr 29 at 12:58






    • 6





      Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

      – David Mulder
      Apr 29 at 13:03







    2




    2





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    Apr 29 at 7:08





    That summarises it well!

    – Stark07
    Apr 29 at 7:08




    5




    5





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    Apr 29 at 8:00





    Totaly agree with you, that's whe he was not in the middle of the Time Machine, it's because he was always there.

    – Dhon Joe
    Apr 29 at 8:00




    3




    3





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    Apr 29 at 12:58





    I'm under the impression that it was impossible to visit the past of the current timeline. That the machine is not just a time travel machine, but a timeline machine as well. This suggests it can go back in time and a new timeline is only created if you alter the past in a way that doesn't prevent the new capt from also doing the same action to close the loop.

    – Goose
    Apr 29 at 12:58




    3




    3





    I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    Apr 29 at 12:58





    I'd add to to that that the Ancient one explains that the Stones themselves create timestreams, a single human might not even have the power to change the stream of time. So because timetravel-Cap coudn't have yelled anything during the funeral because that is not what happened. And yes, the concept of free will is a bit iffy on this point.

    – Borgh
    Apr 29 at 12:58




    6




    6





    Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    Apr 29 at 13:03





    Except that the entire point was that travelling to the past is still your future and that your past timeline can't be changed. That's why it was pointless to murder Thanos as a baby. So whoever Peggy originally married wasn't Captain America. And in a new timeline he married her and she didn't marry whoever she was "supposed" to marry. Of course the more reasonable answer is that it's simply another plothole.

    – David Mulder
    Apr 29 at 13:03













    3














    I do not think Captain America lives out his life in our reality. Similar to how the stones were taken in a different reality he just went there and messed further with their timeline.



    Here are the reasons I think this must be true.



    1. Anything else would go against all the rules of time-travel established in the movie

    2. Captain America knows Becky is alive and SHIELD is interrelated by Hydra. I am sure that in his new reality he fixes both of these things, but not in ours.

    Afterwards he comes back to us by some means. Maybe he gets more Pim [particles from his version of Dr Pim at some point. Maybe the Sorcerer Supreme helps him. He meets her to give back the Time Stone.



    The only question is why does he not come back to the platform? That must be just for dramatic effect. He had a lifetime to plan this moment.



    EDIT:



    Before anyone says that Cap would not mess with the timeline, if he did go back to our time, he clearly has shown that he does not care about it. If he risked changing something just for himself, he defiantly would have changed things to stop his best friend from being tortured.






    share|improve this answer





























      3














      I do not think Captain America lives out his life in our reality. Similar to how the stones were taken in a different reality he just went there and messed further with their timeline.



      Here are the reasons I think this must be true.



      1. Anything else would go against all the rules of time-travel established in the movie

      2. Captain America knows Becky is alive and SHIELD is interrelated by Hydra. I am sure that in his new reality he fixes both of these things, but not in ours.

      Afterwards he comes back to us by some means. Maybe he gets more Pim [particles from his version of Dr Pim at some point. Maybe the Sorcerer Supreme helps him. He meets her to give back the Time Stone.



      The only question is why does he not come back to the platform? That must be just for dramatic effect. He had a lifetime to plan this moment.



      EDIT:



      Before anyone says that Cap would not mess with the timeline, if he did go back to our time, he clearly has shown that he does not care about it. If he risked changing something just for himself, he defiantly would have changed things to stop his best friend from being tortured.






      share|improve this answer



























        3












        3








        3







        I do not think Captain America lives out his life in our reality. Similar to how the stones were taken in a different reality he just went there and messed further with their timeline.



        Here are the reasons I think this must be true.



        1. Anything else would go against all the rules of time-travel established in the movie

        2. Captain America knows Becky is alive and SHIELD is interrelated by Hydra. I am sure that in his new reality he fixes both of these things, but not in ours.

        Afterwards he comes back to us by some means. Maybe he gets more Pim [particles from his version of Dr Pim at some point. Maybe the Sorcerer Supreme helps him. He meets her to give back the Time Stone.



        The only question is why does he not come back to the platform? That must be just for dramatic effect. He had a lifetime to plan this moment.



        EDIT:



        Before anyone says that Cap would not mess with the timeline, if he did go back to our time, he clearly has shown that he does not care about it. If he risked changing something just for himself, he defiantly would have changed things to stop his best friend from being tortured.






        share|improve this answer















        I do not think Captain America lives out his life in our reality. Similar to how the stones were taken in a different reality he just went there and messed further with their timeline.



        Here are the reasons I think this must be true.



        1. Anything else would go against all the rules of time-travel established in the movie

        2. Captain America knows Becky is alive and SHIELD is interrelated by Hydra. I am sure that in his new reality he fixes both of these things, but not in ours.

        Afterwards he comes back to us by some means. Maybe he gets more Pim [particles from his version of Dr Pim at some point. Maybe the Sorcerer Supreme helps him. He meets her to give back the Time Stone.



        The only question is why does he not come back to the platform? That must be just for dramatic effect. He had a lifetime to plan this moment.



        EDIT:



        Before anyone says that Cap would not mess with the timeline, if he did go back to our time, he clearly has shown that he does not care about it. If he risked changing something just for himself, he defiantly would have changed things to stop his best friend from being tortured.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Apr 29 at 18:41

























        answered Apr 29 at 16:50









        AndreyAndrey

        696617




        696617





















            1














            Confusing situation




            This situation is confusing because Endgame uses a version of time
            travel that's not often seen in science fiction, especially movies or
            television. Endgames time travel is based on the multi universe
            theory and isn't really time travel, it's more like jumping to a
            universe that's running a bit behind your own




            How it works




            This version of time travel is the one used in the book Timeline
            written by the late Michael Crichton. I highly recommend it, and it
            does a very good job of explaining how multi universe "time travel"
            works. It's also a movie Timeline Movie, but if I remember
            correctly they screw up how Crichton's time travel works.




            What that means in endgame




            So a short explanation of the time travel in Endgame. When the team
            goes back to 2012 they didn't travel back in time in their own
            universe, they traveled to a different universe that happens to be
            identical to the one they started from, except it's 7 years earlier
            there. This is how removing the stones from that time can't effect
            the present in the original universe. Interestingly this means that
            the stones taken from Asgard and the ones that Rhodes, Nebula, Barton,
            and Natasha take are from different universes as well. So one
            universe only loses a max of 2 stones (note that Tony and Cap get the
            Tesseract from a different universe).




            Answering your Question




            Now that's out of the way, what's going on with old Captain America. This is >!where it gets a bit tricky. As Keith Morrison mentioned in his answer Peggy >!Carters husband is never named in previous films. Which means that the old >!Captain America seen in Endgame was probably her husband all along in the >!movie universe and avoided notice as Keith describes. However this is not a >!closed loop. Old Captain America is from a different universe. One that was >!exactly identical to the movie universe but ~70 years ahead of the one in the >!movie. In fact if the characters were to check his "quantum signature" or >!some such thing they'd probably be able to identify he wasn't from the movie >!universe.


            The Cap who went back in time will never return to the movie universe. He'll >!live out his life in the universe he jumped to for Peggy.




            His gift




            Regarding the shield that old Captain America has with him. Perhaps in the >!universe he came from it either wasn't destroyed or was rebuilt before he went >!back, so he took it with him when he returned the stones. Of course he >!wouldn't know that it was destroyed and not present in the movie universe.




            What banner mentions




            To tie this back to what Banner said earlier in the movie about killing baby >!Thanos. He was right and wrong. They could kill baby Thanos and stop the >!snap, it just wouldn't be in their universe. In fact they could spend years >!committing baby Thanos genocide in many other universes and saving them from >!the snap, but never their own. Of course that might have other undesirable >!outcomes for those universes, for instance if Thanos never existed, would the >!Guardians of the Galaxy have formed? And if they didn't could Quill of >!stopped his father Ego? All life becoming Ego is arguably worse than the >!snap.




            end spoilers






            share|improve this answer

























            • Yeah this explains it well.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:04















            1














            Confusing situation




            This situation is confusing because Endgame uses a version of time
            travel that's not often seen in science fiction, especially movies or
            television. Endgames time travel is based on the multi universe
            theory and isn't really time travel, it's more like jumping to a
            universe that's running a bit behind your own




            How it works




            This version of time travel is the one used in the book Timeline
            written by the late Michael Crichton. I highly recommend it, and it
            does a very good job of explaining how multi universe "time travel"
            works. It's also a movie Timeline Movie, but if I remember
            correctly they screw up how Crichton's time travel works.




            What that means in endgame




            So a short explanation of the time travel in Endgame. When the team
            goes back to 2012 they didn't travel back in time in their own
            universe, they traveled to a different universe that happens to be
            identical to the one they started from, except it's 7 years earlier
            there. This is how removing the stones from that time can't effect
            the present in the original universe. Interestingly this means that
            the stones taken from Asgard and the ones that Rhodes, Nebula, Barton,
            and Natasha take are from different universes as well. So one
            universe only loses a max of 2 stones (note that Tony and Cap get the
            Tesseract from a different universe).




            Answering your Question




            Now that's out of the way, what's going on with old Captain America. This is >!where it gets a bit tricky. As Keith Morrison mentioned in his answer Peggy >!Carters husband is never named in previous films. Which means that the old >!Captain America seen in Endgame was probably her husband all along in the >!movie universe and avoided notice as Keith describes. However this is not a >!closed loop. Old Captain America is from a different universe. One that was >!exactly identical to the movie universe but ~70 years ahead of the one in the >!movie. In fact if the characters were to check his "quantum signature" or >!some such thing they'd probably be able to identify he wasn't from the movie >!universe.


            The Cap who went back in time will never return to the movie universe. He'll >!live out his life in the universe he jumped to for Peggy.




            His gift




            Regarding the shield that old Captain America has with him. Perhaps in the >!universe he came from it either wasn't destroyed or was rebuilt before he went >!back, so he took it with him when he returned the stones. Of course he >!wouldn't know that it was destroyed and not present in the movie universe.




            What banner mentions




            To tie this back to what Banner said earlier in the movie about killing baby >!Thanos. He was right and wrong. They could kill baby Thanos and stop the >!snap, it just wouldn't be in their universe. In fact they could spend years >!committing baby Thanos genocide in many other universes and saving them from >!the snap, but never their own. Of course that might have other undesirable >!outcomes for those universes, for instance if Thanos never existed, would the >!Guardians of the Galaxy have formed? And if they didn't could Quill of >!stopped his father Ego? All life becoming Ego is arguably worse than the >!snap.




            end spoilers






            share|improve this answer

























            • Yeah this explains it well.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:04













            1












            1








            1







            Confusing situation




            This situation is confusing because Endgame uses a version of time
            travel that's not often seen in science fiction, especially movies or
            television. Endgames time travel is based on the multi universe
            theory and isn't really time travel, it's more like jumping to a
            universe that's running a bit behind your own




            How it works




            This version of time travel is the one used in the book Timeline
            written by the late Michael Crichton. I highly recommend it, and it
            does a very good job of explaining how multi universe "time travel"
            works. It's also a movie Timeline Movie, but if I remember
            correctly they screw up how Crichton's time travel works.




            What that means in endgame




            So a short explanation of the time travel in Endgame. When the team
            goes back to 2012 they didn't travel back in time in their own
            universe, they traveled to a different universe that happens to be
            identical to the one they started from, except it's 7 years earlier
            there. This is how removing the stones from that time can't effect
            the present in the original universe. Interestingly this means that
            the stones taken from Asgard and the ones that Rhodes, Nebula, Barton,
            and Natasha take are from different universes as well. So one
            universe only loses a max of 2 stones (note that Tony and Cap get the
            Tesseract from a different universe).




            Answering your Question




            Now that's out of the way, what's going on with old Captain America. This is >!where it gets a bit tricky. As Keith Morrison mentioned in his answer Peggy >!Carters husband is never named in previous films. Which means that the old >!Captain America seen in Endgame was probably her husband all along in the >!movie universe and avoided notice as Keith describes. However this is not a >!closed loop. Old Captain America is from a different universe. One that was >!exactly identical to the movie universe but ~70 years ahead of the one in the >!movie. In fact if the characters were to check his "quantum signature" or >!some such thing they'd probably be able to identify he wasn't from the movie >!universe.


            The Cap who went back in time will never return to the movie universe. He'll >!live out his life in the universe he jumped to for Peggy.




            His gift




            Regarding the shield that old Captain America has with him. Perhaps in the >!universe he came from it either wasn't destroyed or was rebuilt before he went >!back, so he took it with him when he returned the stones. Of course he >!wouldn't know that it was destroyed and not present in the movie universe.




            What banner mentions




            To tie this back to what Banner said earlier in the movie about killing baby >!Thanos. He was right and wrong. They could kill baby Thanos and stop the >!snap, it just wouldn't be in their universe. In fact they could spend years >!committing baby Thanos genocide in many other universes and saving them from >!the snap, but never their own. Of course that might have other undesirable >!outcomes for those universes, for instance if Thanos never existed, would the >!Guardians of the Galaxy have formed? And if they didn't could Quill of >!stopped his father Ego? All life becoming Ego is arguably worse than the >!snap.




            end spoilers






            share|improve this answer















            Confusing situation




            This situation is confusing because Endgame uses a version of time
            travel that's not often seen in science fiction, especially movies or
            television. Endgames time travel is based on the multi universe
            theory and isn't really time travel, it's more like jumping to a
            universe that's running a bit behind your own




            How it works




            This version of time travel is the one used in the book Timeline
            written by the late Michael Crichton. I highly recommend it, and it
            does a very good job of explaining how multi universe "time travel"
            works. It's also a movie Timeline Movie, but if I remember
            correctly they screw up how Crichton's time travel works.




            What that means in endgame




            So a short explanation of the time travel in Endgame. When the team
            goes back to 2012 they didn't travel back in time in their own
            universe, they traveled to a different universe that happens to be
            identical to the one they started from, except it's 7 years earlier
            there. This is how removing the stones from that time can't effect
            the present in the original universe. Interestingly this means that
            the stones taken from Asgard and the ones that Rhodes, Nebula, Barton,
            and Natasha take are from different universes as well. So one
            universe only loses a max of 2 stones (note that Tony and Cap get the
            Tesseract from a different universe).




            Answering your Question




            Now that's out of the way, what's going on with old Captain America. This is >!where it gets a bit tricky. As Keith Morrison mentioned in his answer Peggy >!Carters husband is never named in previous films. Which means that the old >!Captain America seen in Endgame was probably her husband all along in the >!movie universe and avoided notice as Keith describes. However this is not a >!closed loop. Old Captain America is from a different universe. One that was >!exactly identical to the movie universe but ~70 years ahead of the one in the >!movie. In fact if the characters were to check his "quantum signature" or >!some such thing they'd probably be able to identify he wasn't from the movie >!universe.


            The Cap who went back in time will never return to the movie universe. He'll >!live out his life in the universe he jumped to for Peggy.




            His gift




            Regarding the shield that old Captain America has with him. Perhaps in the >!universe he came from it either wasn't destroyed or was rebuilt before he went >!back, so he took it with him when he returned the stones. Of course he >!wouldn't know that it was destroyed and not present in the movie universe.




            What banner mentions




            To tie this back to what Banner said earlier in the movie about killing baby >!Thanos. He was right and wrong. They could kill baby Thanos and stop the >!snap, it just wouldn't be in their universe. In fact they could spend years >!committing baby Thanos genocide in many other universes and saving them from >!the snap, but never their own. Of course that might have other undesirable >!outcomes for those universes, for instance if Thanos never existed, would the >!Guardians of the Galaxy have formed? And if they didn't could Quill of >!stopped his father Ego? All life becoming Ego is arguably worse than the >!snap.




            end spoilers







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Apr 29 at 17:25

























            answered Apr 29 at 17:15









            TheoTheo

            1344




            1344












            • Yeah this explains it well.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:04

















            • Yeah this explains it well.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:04
















            Yeah this explains it well.

            – SeanR
            May 3 at 5:04





            Yeah this explains it well.

            – SeanR
            May 3 at 5:04











            1














            After some thought about this, my personal theory is that




            The elderly Captain America is from a different (though similar) timeline




            We know that




            the timeline Captain America went back to already has changes made to it that simply returning the infinity stones won't change (Loki's escape being the most obvious, but also things like Peter Quill being knocked out, Thor's hammer being pulled away from him while on Asgard, or HYDRA agents hearing Cap say "Hail Hydra"). But these changes are all relatively minor - they won't cause the millions of deaths that the Ancient One warned would result from actually removing an infinity stone from the timeline.




            So,




            that timeline will be slightly altered, but its events will largely be the same. Thanos or someone similar will still gather the stones, and in 2019 heros will likely travel back in time themselves to set things right. This will change events in other ways, creating yet another timeline slightly altered from their own. In essence, we see a cycle of slightly-different timelines being forked off over and over.




            But




            how do we know our timeline is the first one in the cycle? More likely, heroes from years the future came back to this one, stealing the infinity stones and returning them, and in doing so changed things in subtle ways from their "original" timeline. Maybe in their timeline Yondu's still alive, or Vision is monochrome, or heck, maybe the earth was saved at some point by a talking duck from outer space.




            The main point here is




            the elderly Steve we see at the end is from that timeline, and has come back to our, forked timeline to live out his life, just like our Steve went back to the newly-forked timeline where Loki escaped. This is consistent with the MCU's rules of time travel - you still can't change your present, only create alternate timelines. But since people in the alternate timelines can themselves go back in time, there's no reason not to think that we were in an "alternate timeline" to begin with.




            To quote another franchise,




            All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.







            share|improve this answer























            • This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:00















            1














            After some thought about this, my personal theory is that




            The elderly Captain America is from a different (though similar) timeline




            We know that




            the timeline Captain America went back to already has changes made to it that simply returning the infinity stones won't change (Loki's escape being the most obvious, but also things like Peter Quill being knocked out, Thor's hammer being pulled away from him while on Asgard, or HYDRA agents hearing Cap say "Hail Hydra"). But these changes are all relatively minor - they won't cause the millions of deaths that the Ancient One warned would result from actually removing an infinity stone from the timeline.




            So,




            that timeline will be slightly altered, but its events will largely be the same. Thanos or someone similar will still gather the stones, and in 2019 heros will likely travel back in time themselves to set things right. This will change events in other ways, creating yet another timeline slightly altered from their own. In essence, we see a cycle of slightly-different timelines being forked off over and over.




            But




            how do we know our timeline is the first one in the cycle? More likely, heroes from years the future came back to this one, stealing the infinity stones and returning them, and in doing so changed things in subtle ways from their "original" timeline. Maybe in their timeline Yondu's still alive, or Vision is monochrome, or heck, maybe the earth was saved at some point by a talking duck from outer space.




            The main point here is




            the elderly Steve we see at the end is from that timeline, and has come back to our, forked timeline to live out his life, just like our Steve went back to the newly-forked timeline where Loki escaped. This is consistent with the MCU's rules of time travel - you still can't change your present, only create alternate timelines. But since people in the alternate timelines can themselves go back in time, there's no reason not to think that we were in an "alternate timeline" to begin with.




            To quote another franchise,




            All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.







            share|improve this answer























            • This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:00













            1












            1








            1







            After some thought about this, my personal theory is that




            The elderly Captain America is from a different (though similar) timeline




            We know that




            the timeline Captain America went back to already has changes made to it that simply returning the infinity stones won't change (Loki's escape being the most obvious, but also things like Peter Quill being knocked out, Thor's hammer being pulled away from him while on Asgard, or HYDRA agents hearing Cap say "Hail Hydra"). But these changes are all relatively minor - they won't cause the millions of deaths that the Ancient One warned would result from actually removing an infinity stone from the timeline.




            So,




            that timeline will be slightly altered, but its events will largely be the same. Thanos or someone similar will still gather the stones, and in 2019 heros will likely travel back in time themselves to set things right. This will change events in other ways, creating yet another timeline slightly altered from their own. In essence, we see a cycle of slightly-different timelines being forked off over and over.




            But




            how do we know our timeline is the first one in the cycle? More likely, heroes from years the future came back to this one, stealing the infinity stones and returning them, and in doing so changed things in subtle ways from their "original" timeline. Maybe in their timeline Yondu's still alive, or Vision is monochrome, or heck, maybe the earth was saved at some point by a talking duck from outer space.




            The main point here is




            the elderly Steve we see at the end is from that timeline, and has come back to our, forked timeline to live out his life, just like our Steve went back to the newly-forked timeline where Loki escaped. This is consistent with the MCU's rules of time travel - you still can't change your present, only create alternate timelines. But since people in the alternate timelines can themselves go back in time, there's no reason not to think that we were in an "alternate timeline" to begin with.




            To quote another franchise,




            All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.







            share|improve this answer













            After some thought about this, my personal theory is that




            The elderly Captain America is from a different (though similar) timeline




            We know that




            the timeline Captain America went back to already has changes made to it that simply returning the infinity stones won't change (Loki's escape being the most obvious, but also things like Peter Quill being knocked out, Thor's hammer being pulled away from him while on Asgard, or HYDRA agents hearing Cap say "Hail Hydra"). But these changes are all relatively minor - they won't cause the millions of deaths that the Ancient One warned would result from actually removing an infinity stone from the timeline.




            So,




            that timeline will be slightly altered, but its events will largely be the same. Thanos or someone similar will still gather the stones, and in 2019 heros will likely travel back in time themselves to set things right. This will change events in other ways, creating yet another timeline slightly altered from their own. In essence, we see a cycle of slightly-different timelines being forked off over and over.




            But




            how do we know our timeline is the first one in the cycle? More likely, heroes from years the future came back to this one, stealing the infinity stones and returning them, and in doing so changed things in subtle ways from their "original" timeline. Maybe in their timeline Yondu's still alive, or Vision is monochrome, or heck, maybe the earth was saved at some point by a talking duck from outer space.




            The main point here is




            the elderly Steve we see at the end is from that timeline, and has come back to our, forked timeline to live out his life, just like our Steve went back to the newly-forked timeline where Loki escaped. This is consistent with the MCU's rules of time travel - you still can't change your present, only create alternate timelines. But since people in the alternate timelines can themselves go back in time, there's no reason not to think that we were in an "alternate timeline" to begin with.




            To quote another franchise,




            All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.








            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Apr 29 at 18:14









            MartianInvaderMartianInvader

            824618




            824618












            • This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:00

















            • This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

              – SeanR
              May 3 at 5:00
















            This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

            – SeanR
            May 3 at 5:00





            This is exactly my theory too. Or just that final scene is from the point of view of an alternative timeline.

            – SeanR
            May 3 at 5:00



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