How much water is needed to create a Katana capable of cutting flesh, bones and wood?

I'm yearning in grey

Harmonic Series Phase Difference?

My student in one course asks for paid tutoring in another course. Appropriate?

Should I email my professor to clear up a (possibly very irrelevant) awkward misunderstanding?

Common Marsupials and Rare Antelopes

What does this Swiss black on yellow rectangular traffic sign with a symbol looking like a dart mean?

Would a 7805 5v regulator drain a 9v battery?

How to recover a single blank shot from a film camera

Why we can't jump without bending our knees?

Is it possible to use just one shared folder for log shipping?

Credit card validation in C

Why do you need to heat the pan before heating the olive oil?

Do details of my undergraduate title matter?

How did the European Union reach the figure of 3% as a maximum allowed deficit?

Does knowing the surface area of all faces uniquely determine a tetrahedron?

What is the precise meaning of "подсел на мак"?

How to make all magic-casting innate, but still rare?

Root User Cannot Reset Another Users Password

Checking if argument is a floating point without breaking on control sequences in argument

Can a character with the Polearm Master feat make an opportunity attack against an invisible creature that enters their reach?

How could I create a situation in which a PC has to make a saving throw or be forced to pet a dog?

How can the US president give an order to a civilian?

How do credit card companies know what type of business I'm paying for?

How do I correctly reduce geometry on part of a mesh?



How much water is needed to create a Katana capable of cutting flesh, bones and wood?














8












$begingroup$


I've created a character for my world that has the ability to manipulate water with her magic. She applied this ability by using it with a katana hilt. I will try to explain how she uses this ability first before I ask the question.



  1. She wears a special plastic/rubber gauntlet that stretches from her hands/palms to her elbow. This special "gauntlet" contains some amount of water. Essentially she's wearing a water gauntlet that covers her forelimbs, from fingers to elbow with water.


  2. In the event that she has to use her katana, she draws out the hilt which always hangs on her right thigh.


  3. She takes a stance, says her magic words, then the water starts moving out from the Gauntlet through pores of the Gauntlet. The water then forms the sword/sharp part of the Katana. I'm yet to decide in what state the water would be to be able to deal physical damage. For now, I'd like to go with "frozen sharp ice". (If there any other ways water can be made sharp, I'd be glad to know)


  4. She can cut flesh, bones and wood with it. The Gauntlet is on her left arm and it's the only one that provides water.


My question is, how much water would be needed to forge such a sword?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    May 31 at 13:05















8












$begingroup$


I've created a character for my world that has the ability to manipulate water with her magic. She applied this ability by using it with a katana hilt. I will try to explain how she uses this ability first before I ask the question.



  1. She wears a special plastic/rubber gauntlet that stretches from her hands/palms to her elbow. This special "gauntlet" contains some amount of water. Essentially she's wearing a water gauntlet that covers her forelimbs, from fingers to elbow with water.


  2. In the event that she has to use her katana, she draws out the hilt which always hangs on her right thigh.


  3. She takes a stance, says her magic words, then the water starts moving out from the Gauntlet through pores of the Gauntlet. The water then forms the sword/sharp part of the Katana. I'm yet to decide in what state the water would be to be able to deal physical damage. For now, I'd like to go with "frozen sharp ice". (If there any other ways water can be made sharp, I'd be glad to know)


  4. She can cut flesh, bones and wood with it. The Gauntlet is on her left arm and it's the only one that provides water.


My question is, how much water would be needed to forge such a sword?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    May 31 at 13:05













8












8








8


1



$begingroup$


I've created a character for my world that has the ability to manipulate water with her magic. She applied this ability by using it with a katana hilt. I will try to explain how she uses this ability first before I ask the question.



  1. She wears a special plastic/rubber gauntlet that stretches from her hands/palms to her elbow. This special "gauntlet" contains some amount of water. Essentially she's wearing a water gauntlet that covers her forelimbs, from fingers to elbow with water.


  2. In the event that she has to use her katana, she draws out the hilt which always hangs on her right thigh.


  3. She takes a stance, says her magic words, then the water starts moving out from the Gauntlet through pores of the Gauntlet. The water then forms the sword/sharp part of the Katana. I'm yet to decide in what state the water would be to be able to deal physical damage. For now, I'd like to go with "frozen sharp ice". (If there any other ways water can be made sharp, I'd be glad to know)


  4. She can cut flesh, bones and wood with it. The Gauntlet is on her left arm and it's the only one that provides water.


My question is, how much water would be needed to forge such a sword?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I've created a character for my world that has the ability to manipulate water with her magic. She applied this ability by using it with a katana hilt. I will try to explain how she uses this ability first before I ask the question.



  1. She wears a special plastic/rubber gauntlet that stretches from her hands/palms to her elbow. This special "gauntlet" contains some amount of water. Essentially she's wearing a water gauntlet that covers her forelimbs, from fingers to elbow with water.


  2. In the event that she has to use her katana, she draws out the hilt which always hangs on her right thigh.


  3. She takes a stance, says her magic words, then the water starts moving out from the Gauntlet through pores of the Gauntlet. The water then forms the sword/sharp part of the Katana. I'm yet to decide in what state the water would be to be able to deal physical damage. For now, I'd like to go with "frozen sharp ice". (If there any other ways water can be made sharp, I'd be glad to know)


  4. She can cut flesh, bones and wood with it. The Gauntlet is on her left arm and it's the only one that provides water.


My question is, how much water would be needed to forge such a sword?







magic weapons water






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited May 31 at 14:23









Cyn

15.2k23071




15.2k23071










asked May 31 at 10:38









Nass KingNass King

336312




336312











  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    May 31 at 13:05
















  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    May 31 at 13:05















$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch
May 31 at 13:05




$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch
May 31 at 13:05










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















17












$begingroup$

Instead of ice, you could make it a "sword" that uses a jet of extremely high-pressure water to make the cut. From Wikipedia:




In the nozzle, the water is focused into a thin beam by a jewel orifice. This beam of water is ejected from the nozzle, cutting through the material by spraying it with the jet of speed on the order of Mach 3, around 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s).




Waterjets use between one half and five gallons (2 to 19 liters) of water per minute when cutting. If you're only making a single cut (about a few seconds of operation), then the water requirements become much smaller. Depending on the magic system, you could continually pull in water from the atmosphere or have a portable tank of water available.



Industrial water jet cutters are used regularly to cut steel into precise shapes without destroying the integrity of the structure (since there's a lot less heat going into the metal). There's often an abrasive mixed in the water for extra cutting potential.



This would require some special construction, especially when it comes to the nozzle. Granted, you could handwave that with the fantasy setting. You could make the "hilt" portion the nozzle that the character holds to channel the water through.



While this doesn't really resemble a "sword", it can still cut like one. Bonus: it has multiple uses, not only as a sword, but a way to cut/puncture doors, locks, and small spaces.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
    $endgroup$
    – AndyD273
    May 31 at 16:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
    $endgroup$
    – William - Rem
    May 31 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
    $endgroup$
    – Jan Hudec
    Jun 1 at 9:05











  • $begingroup$
    Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
    $endgroup$
    – Demigan
    Jun 3 at 11:24


















6












$begingroup$

Something that might help you is that there are at least 17 forms of ice, depending on pressure and temperature where it is formed.



enter image description here



So you may be able to use some of the properties of these exotic types of ice to do what you want. For instance, ice that forms at super high pressure is much more dense, and ice that is colder is much harder.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
    $endgroup$
    – Cumehtar
    May 31 at 14:50







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
    $endgroup$
    – AndyD273
    May 31 at 16:49






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Jun 1 at 1:13











  • $begingroup$
    @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
    $endgroup$
    – AndyD273
    Jun 3 at 14:12










  • $begingroup$
    Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
    $endgroup$
    – AndyD273
    Jun 3 at 14:19


















6












$begingroup$

That depends on the size of the sword. If your intention is simply to create a water replica of a katana, you would simply need the volume of the katana as the amount of water. Assuming the blade is about 1,50m long, about 3 cm wide and on average 0.5 cm thick, you would need 15*0.3*0.05 = 0.225l of water.



E: Also, a katana isn't really the best weapon from for cutting solid things like bones and wood. Katanas are only viable because of their layered crafting. But with magic involved, one could argue that the ice is strengthened and sharpened by the magic, making the form irrelevant.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
    $endgroup$
    – Cumehtar
    May 31 at 12:10


















5












$begingroup$

That's a tricky question, because a lot of problems can be circumvented by saying 'because magic'.



First problem is that ice is much more brittle then steel, so a cutting sword made of ice with be shattered easily. But it seems that our protagonist can prevent it by magic.



Second problem is the density. The average density of steel is around 8 gram/cm3. The density of ice is 0.9 gram/cm3, which is almost 10 times lighter. So if you go just by replicating the shape of a katana blade in ice, it will weigh around 90-110 grams (katana blade without hilt and fittings is supposed to weight from 800 to 1000 grams, as far as I remember).



Using katana hilt with the blade as light as 100 grams will be a problem of its own, if you want to use it as a sword, especially against other people with swords. A weapon that light will have problems cutting because of the lack of the mass in the blade, it's easy to block or batter aside with a heavier weapon. Generally, cutting swords rarely went down below 600 grams in overall weight, and specialized cutting swords (ones able to do damage to bones and wood) very rarely weighed less then 800 grams (Here is some data on the weights of different variants of British 1796 light cavalry sabers, one of the lightest effective cutters I know of). But calculating the weight of a cutting sword mathematically is a very tricky proposition - it's more of an engineering task, not purely mathematical. A lot of nuance lays in the physical properties of materials, their flexibility and strength. If we assume a material with infinite tensile strength, infinite sharpness and infinite slickness (zero friction), then we may go lighter then 600 grams for a sword.



As far as I see, your character can circumvent the problem in two ways, both of which will be decidedly magical. First, we can assume she can also vary the density of ice at will - then your ice blade would weight just as much as a steel one, and for all effects and purposes it will behave as a metal weapon, as far as handling and balance is concerned. So upwards from 800 grams if it's a katana blade, less (around 600-700) if it's a thinner and broader one, like tulwar or 1796.



Second variant is treating 'water' as an advanced nanomaterial. Here, again, we don't care that it's water before magic starts acting on it. In effect, what you want is a mono-molecular blade - one molecule in thickness, but of the length and breadth of a sword blade. The amount of water for this task will be trivial, less then 10 grams, I think.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
    $endgroup$
    – Nass King
    May 31 at 11:36










  • $begingroup$
    @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
    $endgroup$
    – Cumehtar
    May 31 at 11:46










  • $begingroup$
    Makes sense. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – Nass King
    May 31 at 13:07






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
    $endgroup$
    – Admiral Jota
    May 31 at 17:15


















0












$begingroup$

Not quite a katana



You need about half a liter or less of water, so it comfortably fits an arm bracer. What you need next is energy.



Water by itself cuts very little, and ice is too weak and brittle to form a blade (you can still stab with it though).



Your water-mage must follow a different approach: the "katana" is actually two laminar sheets of water and ice crystals, one twentieth of a millimeter thick, held together by a pressure in excess of 600 MPa, and flowing one into the other at three times the speed of sound. Under these conditions, ordinary water will cut through hardened steel, though slowly. You do not have a katana, but a water chainsaw plus drill.



Used to stab, this katana will go through a 1mm thick steel armour plate in about two seconds, and the body behind in not much more.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    0












    $begingroup$

    A monomolecular blade



    This would use a tiny amount of water and be sharp enough to cut through most substances.



    Have your magic user put her energy into aligning and strengthening the intermolecular bonds. Water molecules are chevron shaped. Align them head to tail.



    An individual molecule is ~2.75 angstrom, 10 -10 m. Allow ~30% overlap. So 2 A per molecule.



    You need 5 billion molecules, 5 x 109 for a 1 m blade.
    1 molecule weighs 18.02 amu.



    1 amu = 1.661 x 10-27 kg.



    5 x109 x 1.661x10 -27 x 18.02 = 150x10-18 kg.



    0.15 femtograms!



    It will be completely invisible.



    Magic user draws what looks like a sword handle from her belt and adopts a stance. Bad guys fall about laughing. She swings a cut. Nearest bad guy slides in two invisibly sliced from shoulder to hip. Bad guys stop laughing.



    There could also be an element where she can vary the length. A very scary weapon.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      A very stiff molecular whip!
      $endgroup$
      – Muuski
      Jun 3 at 20:24


















    0












    $begingroup$

    You could also consider adding impurities to the water (there is some precedent for this in fantasy stories, see Avatar: The Last Airbender where certain water benders are capable of "bending" blood due to its high water content, and metal benders are earth benders who can manipulate metal by the "impurities" in it).



    As a practical example, there is a real world material known as pykrete (a mixture of water ice and sawdust) which has properties similar to concrete.



    Mechanical properties | Ice | Concrete | Pykrete
    ---
    Crushing strength [MPa] | 3.447 | 17.240 | 7.584
    Tensile strength [MPa] | 1.103 | 1.724 | 4.826
    Density [kg/m³] | 910 | 2500 | 980


    There are also variants which use hemp or newspaper to increase the tensile strength. Its not a stretch to envision that this user might have some specific recipe which creates a stronger pysteel composite for instance (the alchemy of their specific water mixture could also be a source of on going experimentation or the gauntlet might have different compartments of suspensions which can be swapped out to provide different physical properties of the final sword).



    Returning to the actual question assuming the user is creating a standard size katana you would effectively just need to use the formula



    Volume(blade) = Volume(water) * .91


    where we assume the standard expansion of 9% volume increase during freezing (I'm not a materials expert so I'm not sure if the expansion of pure water during freezing would be identical to that of an impure mixture but I assume relative parity here).






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "579"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );













      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f148113%2fhow-much-water-is-needed-to-create-a-katana-capable-of-cutting-flesh-bones-and%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      7 Answers
      7






      active

      oldest

      votes








      7 Answers
      7






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      17












      $begingroup$

      Instead of ice, you could make it a "sword" that uses a jet of extremely high-pressure water to make the cut. From Wikipedia:




      In the nozzle, the water is focused into a thin beam by a jewel orifice. This beam of water is ejected from the nozzle, cutting through the material by spraying it with the jet of speed on the order of Mach 3, around 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s).




      Waterjets use between one half and five gallons (2 to 19 liters) of water per minute when cutting. If you're only making a single cut (about a few seconds of operation), then the water requirements become much smaller. Depending on the magic system, you could continually pull in water from the atmosphere or have a portable tank of water available.



      Industrial water jet cutters are used regularly to cut steel into precise shapes without destroying the integrity of the structure (since there's a lot less heat going into the metal). There's often an abrasive mixed in the water for extra cutting potential.



      This would require some special construction, especially when it comes to the nozzle. Granted, you could handwave that with the fantasy setting. You could make the "hilt" portion the nozzle that the character holds to channel the water through.



      While this doesn't really resemble a "sword", it can still cut like one. Bonus: it has multiple uses, not only as a sword, but a way to cut/puncture doors, locks, and small spaces.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 7




        $begingroup$
        Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
        $endgroup$
        – William - Rem
        May 31 at 20:44










      • $begingroup$
        It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
        $endgroup$
        – Jan Hudec
        Jun 1 at 9:05











      • $begingroup$
        Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
        $endgroup$
        – Demigan
        Jun 3 at 11:24















      17












      $begingroup$

      Instead of ice, you could make it a "sword" that uses a jet of extremely high-pressure water to make the cut. From Wikipedia:




      In the nozzle, the water is focused into a thin beam by a jewel orifice. This beam of water is ejected from the nozzle, cutting through the material by spraying it with the jet of speed on the order of Mach 3, around 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s).




      Waterjets use between one half and five gallons (2 to 19 liters) of water per minute when cutting. If you're only making a single cut (about a few seconds of operation), then the water requirements become much smaller. Depending on the magic system, you could continually pull in water from the atmosphere or have a portable tank of water available.



      Industrial water jet cutters are used regularly to cut steel into precise shapes without destroying the integrity of the structure (since there's a lot less heat going into the metal). There's often an abrasive mixed in the water for extra cutting potential.



      This would require some special construction, especially when it comes to the nozzle. Granted, you could handwave that with the fantasy setting. You could make the "hilt" portion the nozzle that the character holds to channel the water through.



      While this doesn't really resemble a "sword", it can still cut like one. Bonus: it has multiple uses, not only as a sword, but a way to cut/puncture doors, locks, and small spaces.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 7




        $begingroup$
        Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
        $endgroup$
        – William - Rem
        May 31 at 20:44










      • $begingroup$
        It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
        $endgroup$
        – Jan Hudec
        Jun 1 at 9:05











      • $begingroup$
        Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
        $endgroup$
        – Demigan
        Jun 3 at 11:24













      17












      17








      17





      $begingroup$

      Instead of ice, you could make it a "sword" that uses a jet of extremely high-pressure water to make the cut. From Wikipedia:




      In the nozzle, the water is focused into a thin beam by a jewel orifice. This beam of water is ejected from the nozzle, cutting through the material by spraying it with the jet of speed on the order of Mach 3, around 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s).




      Waterjets use between one half and five gallons (2 to 19 liters) of water per minute when cutting. If you're only making a single cut (about a few seconds of operation), then the water requirements become much smaller. Depending on the magic system, you could continually pull in water from the atmosphere or have a portable tank of water available.



      Industrial water jet cutters are used regularly to cut steel into precise shapes without destroying the integrity of the structure (since there's a lot less heat going into the metal). There's often an abrasive mixed in the water for extra cutting potential.



      This would require some special construction, especially when it comes to the nozzle. Granted, you could handwave that with the fantasy setting. You could make the "hilt" portion the nozzle that the character holds to channel the water through.



      While this doesn't really resemble a "sword", it can still cut like one. Bonus: it has multiple uses, not only as a sword, but a way to cut/puncture doors, locks, and small spaces.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Instead of ice, you could make it a "sword" that uses a jet of extremely high-pressure water to make the cut. From Wikipedia:




      In the nozzle, the water is focused into a thin beam by a jewel orifice. This beam of water is ejected from the nozzle, cutting through the material by spraying it with the jet of speed on the order of Mach 3, around 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s).




      Waterjets use between one half and five gallons (2 to 19 liters) of water per minute when cutting. If you're only making a single cut (about a few seconds of operation), then the water requirements become much smaller. Depending on the magic system, you could continually pull in water from the atmosphere or have a portable tank of water available.



      Industrial water jet cutters are used regularly to cut steel into precise shapes without destroying the integrity of the structure (since there's a lot less heat going into the metal). There's often an abrasive mixed in the water for extra cutting potential.



      This would require some special construction, especially when it comes to the nozzle. Granted, you could handwave that with the fantasy setting. You could make the "hilt" portion the nozzle that the character holds to channel the water through.



      While this doesn't really resemble a "sword", it can still cut like one. Bonus: it has multiple uses, not only as a sword, but a way to cut/puncture doors, locks, and small spaces.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited May 31 at 15:17

























      answered May 31 at 15:10









      ThassaThassa

      27115




      27115







      • 7




        $begingroup$
        Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
        $endgroup$
        – William - Rem
        May 31 at 20:44










      • $begingroup$
        It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
        $endgroup$
        – Jan Hudec
        Jun 1 at 9:05











      • $begingroup$
        Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
        $endgroup$
        – Demigan
        Jun 3 at 11:24












      • 7




        $begingroup$
        Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
        $endgroup$
        – William - Rem
        May 31 at 20:44










      • $begingroup$
        It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
        $endgroup$
        – Jan Hudec
        Jun 1 at 9:05











      • $begingroup$
        Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
        $endgroup$
        – Demigan
        Jun 3 at 11:24







      7




      7




      $begingroup$
      Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      May 31 at 16:40




      $begingroup$
      Depending on the amount of magical control, it could essentially be a water chainsaw, where the water sprays out on the cutting edge, and then loops back toward the handle on the back edge, continuously recycling, and removes the need for pulling it out of the atmosphere or something. Also, possible that you could have a percentage of the water become ice crystals to give it a little extra abrasiveness.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      May 31 at 16:40




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
      $endgroup$
      – William - Rem
      May 31 at 20:44




      $begingroup$
      @AndyD273 - Ice crystals would form around the "contaminants" that make up the abrasives added to water for a waterjet cutter that make it more effective, so I suspect this would be the opposite of helpful.
      $endgroup$
      – William - Rem
      May 31 at 20:44












      $begingroup$
      It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
      $endgroup$
      – Jan Hudec
      Jun 1 at 9:05





      $begingroup$
      It would have to be wielded one-handed together with a shield though, because while it can cut steel, it can't cut it fast enough to stop the opponents (mundane) blade (in contrast to katana, which is wielded two-handed).
      $endgroup$
      – Jan Hudec
      Jun 1 at 9:05













      $begingroup$
      Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
      $endgroup$
      – Demigan
      Jun 3 at 11:24




      $begingroup$
      Water jets used for cutting have an extremely short range. Most of these cutters are placed practically on top of the material as the water will quickly lose cohesion and velocity. The structure is also important, something that gives way is more resiliant than something as solid as steel, meaning that flesh would warp and move but wouldnt immediately be cut (depending on the force). So you'd need the water to be continuously accelerated and kept in place around the sword's edge. Also most steel cutting this way takes time, the nozzle moves slowly to properly cut through.
      $endgroup$
      – Demigan
      Jun 3 at 11:24











      6












      $begingroup$

      Something that might help you is that there are at least 17 forms of ice, depending on pressure and temperature where it is formed.



      enter image description here



      So you may be able to use some of the properties of these exotic types of ice to do what you want. For instance, ice that forms at super high pressure is much more dense, and ice that is colder is much harder.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 14:50







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:49






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
        $endgroup$
        – Mazura
        Jun 1 at 1:13











      • $begingroup$
        @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:12










      • $begingroup$
        Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:19















      6












      $begingroup$

      Something that might help you is that there are at least 17 forms of ice, depending on pressure and temperature where it is formed.



      enter image description here



      So you may be able to use some of the properties of these exotic types of ice to do what you want. For instance, ice that forms at super high pressure is much more dense, and ice that is colder is much harder.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 14:50







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:49






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
        $endgroup$
        – Mazura
        Jun 1 at 1:13











      • $begingroup$
        @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:12










      • $begingroup$
        Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:19













      6












      6








      6





      $begingroup$

      Something that might help you is that there are at least 17 forms of ice, depending on pressure and temperature where it is formed.



      enter image description here



      So you may be able to use some of the properties of these exotic types of ice to do what you want. For instance, ice that forms at super high pressure is much more dense, and ice that is colder is much harder.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      Something that might help you is that there are at least 17 forms of ice, depending on pressure and temperature where it is formed.



      enter image description here



      So you may be able to use some of the properties of these exotic types of ice to do what you want. For instance, ice that forms at super high pressure is much more dense, and ice that is colder is much harder.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered May 31 at 14:44









      AndyD273AndyD273

      31.3k259137




      31.3k259137







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 14:50







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:49






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
        $endgroup$
        – Mazura
        Jun 1 at 1:13











      • $begingroup$
        @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:12










      • $begingroup$
        Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:19












      • 1




        $begingroup$
        As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 14:50







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        May 31 at 16:49






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
        $endgroup$
        – Mazura
        Jun 1 at 1:13











      • $begingroup$
        @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:12










      • $begingroup$
        Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
        $endgroup$
        – AndyD273
        Jun 3 at 14:19







      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
      $endgroup$
      – Cumehtar
      May 31 at 14:50





      $begingroup$
      As far as I can see here (www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_phases.html), the densities of various forms of ice are still significantly less then those of steel. The only exception is 'metallic ice', but as far as I see, it's a theoretic form and hadn't been laboratory tested. Am I right?
      $endgroup$
      – Cumehtar
      May 31 at 14:50





      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      May 31 at 16:49




      $begingroup$
      @Cumehtar It wouldn't have the density of steel, but that affects weight more than anything else. I did find one source that said that at ultra low temperatures ice can get very hard, with a MOHs hardness rivaling steel/granite. It would still be more brittle, where steel can be flexible, but at those temperatures a steel blade (and everything else) would be very brittle too, so depending on how the magic works it could ultra cool what it's being swung at before cutting/shattering it.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      May 31 at 16:49




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
      $endgroup$
      – Mazura
      Jun 1 at 1:13





      $begingroup$
      Yeah (+1), but it's a question of how much; aka: volume. And water (being basically incompressible, and using the type of ice that we're all familiar with) when frozen increases in volume by about 11%. So, @OP : 11% less than the volume of water that would fill a mold for the sword. My question for you, Andy, is what that '11%' is for all 17 forms of ice.
      $endgroup$
      – Mazura
      Jun 1 at 1:13













      $begingroup$
      @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      Jun 3 at 14:12




      $begingroup$
      @Mazura I'm not an exotic ice expert, but according to the entry on ice phases, ices beyond ice-III are denser than water, meaning that you'd need more water, not less. I'm not sure how much for most of them, but ice-XII is "approximately 1.3 times more dense than water". This is still some crazy pressure/temperature control magic.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      Jun 3 at 14:12












      $begingroup$
      Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      Jun 3 at 14:19




      $begingroup$
      Actually, according to the link posted by @Cumehtar, ice-X appears to be the densest (other than metallic ice), at 2.51 times denser than water. Interesting stuff.
      $endgroup$
      – AndyD273
      Jun 3 at 14:19











      6












      $begingroup$

      That depends on the size of the sword. If your intention is simply to create a water replica of a katana, you would simply need the volume of the katana as the amount of water. Assuming the blade is about 1,50m long, about 3 cm wide and on average 0.5 cm thick, you would need 15*0.3*0.05 = 0.225l of water.



      E: Also, a katana isn't really the best weapon from for cutting solid things like bones and wood. Katanas are only viable because of their layered crafting. But with magic involved, one could argue that the ice is strengthened and sharpened by the magic, making the form irrelevant.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 12:10















      6












      $begingroup$

      That depends on the size of the sword. If your intention is simply to create a water replica of a katana, you would simply need the volume of the katana as the amount of water. Assuming the blade is about 1,50m long, about 3 cm wide and on average 0.5 cm thick, you would need 15*0.3*0.05 = 0.225l of water.



      E: Also, a katana isn't really the best weapon from for cutting solid things like bones and wood. Katanas are only viable because of their layered crafting. But with magic involved, one could argue that the ice is strengthened and sharpened by the magic, making the form irrelevant.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 12:10













      6












      6








      6





      $begingroup$

      That depends on the size of the sword. If your intention is simply to create a water replica of a katana, you would simply need the volume of the katana as the amount of water. Assuming the blade is about 1,50m long, about 3 cm wide and on average 0.5 cm thick, you would need 15*0.3*0.05 = 0.225l of water.



      E: Also, a katana isn't really the best weapon from for cutting solid things like bones and wood. Katanas are only viable because of their layered crafting. But with magic involved, one could argue that the ice is strengthened and sharpened by the magic, making the form irrelevant.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      That depends on the size of the sword. If your intention is simply to create a water replica of a katana, you would simply need the volume of the katana as the amount of water. Assuming the blade is about 1,50m long, about 3 cm wide and on average 0.5 cm thick, you would need 15*0.3*0.05 = 0.225l of water.



      E: Also, a katana isn't really the best weapon from for cutting solid things like bones and wood. Katanas are only viable because of their layered crafting. But with magic involved, one could argue that the ice is strengthened and sharpened by the magic, making the form irrelevant.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Jun 2 at 6:58









      Brythan

      22.1k84388




      22.1k84388










      answered May 31 at 10:58









      miepmiep

      427112




      427112







      • 1




        $begingroup$
        1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 12:10












      • 1




        $begingroup$
        1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 12:10







      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
      $endgroup$
      – Cumehtar
      May 31 at 12:10




      $begingroup$
      1.5 meters is too long for a katana ) A normal katana blade is significantly below 1 meter in length. 60-70 cm is much more usual.
      $endgroup$
      – Cumehtar
      May 31 at 12:10











      5












      $begingroup$

      That's a tricky question, because a lot of problems can be circumvented by saying 'because magic'.



      First problem is that ice is much more brittle then steel, so a cutting sword made of ice with be shattered easily. But it seems that our protagonist can prevent it by magic.



      Second problem is the density. The average density of steel is around 8 gram/cm3. The density of ice is 0.9 gram/cm3, which is almost 10 times lighter. So if you go just by replicating the shape of a katana blade in ice, it will weigh around 90-110 grams (katana blade without hilt and fittings is supposed to weight from 800 to 1000 grams, as far as I remember).



      Using katana hilt with the blade as light as 100 grams will be a problem of its own, if you want to use it as a sword, especially against other people with swords. A weapon that light will have problems cutting because of the lack of the mass in the blade, it's easy to block or batter aside with a heavier weapon. Generally, cutting swords rarely went down below 600 grams in overall weight, and specialized cutting swords (ones able to do damage to bones and wood) very rarely weighed less then 800 grams (Here is some data on the weights of different variants of British 1796 light cavalry sabers, one of the lightest effective cutters I know of). But calculating the weight of a cutting sword mathematically is a very tricky proposition - it's more of an engineering task, not purely mathematical. A lot of nuance lays in the physical properties of materials, their flexibility and strength. If we assume a material with infinite tensile strength, infinite sharpness and infinite slickness (zero friction), then we may go lighter then 600 grams for a sword.



      As far as I see, your character can circumvent the problem in two ways, both of which will be decidedly magical. First, we can assume she can also vary the density of ice at will - then your ice blade would weight just as much as a steel one, and for all effects and purposes it will behave as a metal weapon, as far as handling and balance is concerned. So upwards from 800 grams if it's a katana blade, less (around 600-700) if it's a thinner and broader one, like tulwar or 1796.



      Second variant is treating 'water' as an advanced nanomaterial. Here, again, we don't care that it's water before magic starts acting on it. In effect, what you want is a mono-molecular blade - one molecule in thickness, but of the length and breadth of a sword blade. The amount of water for this task will be trivial, less then 10 grams, I think.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 11:36










      • $begingroup$
        @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 11:46










      • $begingroup$
        Makes sense. Thanks
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 13:07






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
        $endgroup$
        – Admiral Jota
        May 31 at 17:15















      5












      $begingroup$

      That's a tricky question, because a lot of problems can be circumvented by saying 'because magic'.



      First problem is that ice is much more brittle then steel, so a cutting sword made of ice with be shattered easily. But it seems that our protagonist can prevent it by magic.



      Second problem is the density. The average density of steel is around 8 gram/cm3. The density of ice is 0.9 gram/cm3, which is almost 10 times lighter. So if you go just by replicating the shape of a katana blade in ice, it will weigh around 90-110 grams (katana blade without hilt and fittings is supposed to weight from 800 to 1000 grams, as far as I remember).



      Using katana hilt with the blade as light as 100 grams will be a problem of its own, if you want to use it as a sword, especially against other people with swords. A weapon that light will have problems cutting because of the lack of the mass in the blade, it's easy to block or batter aside with a heavier weapon. Generally, cutting swords rarely went down below 600 grams in overall weight, and specialized cutting swords (ones able to do damage to bones and wood) very rarely weighed less then 800 grams (Here is some data on the weights of different variants of British 1796 light cavalry sabers, one of the lightest effective cutters I know of). But calculating the weight of a cutting sword mathematically is a very tricky proposition - it's more of an engineering task, not purely mathematical. A lot of nuance lays in the physical properties of materials, their flexibility and strength. If we assume a material with infinite tensile strength, infinite sharpness and infinite slickness (zero friction), then we may go lighter then 600 grams for a sword.



      As far as I see, your character can circumvent the problem in two ways, both of which will be decidedly magical. First, we can assume she can also vary the density of ice at will - then your ice blade would weight just as much as a steel one, and for all effects and purposes it will behave as a metal weapon, as far as handling and balance is concerned. So upwards from 800 grams if it's a katana blade, less (around 600-700) if it's a thinner and broader one, like tulwar or 1796.



      Second variant is treating 'water' as an advanced nanomaterial. Here, again, we don't care that it's water before magic starts acting on it. In effect, what you want is a mono-molecular blade - one molecule in thickness, but of the length and breadth of a sword blade. The amount of water for this task will be trivial, less then 10 grams, I think.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 11:36










      • $begingroup$
        @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 11:46










      • $begingroup$
        Makes sense. Thanks
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 13:07






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
        $endgroup$
        – Admiral Jota
        May 31 at 17:15













      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$

      That's a tricky question, because a lot of problems can be circumvented by saying 'because magic'.



      First problem is that ice is much more brittle then steel, so a cutting sword made of ice with be shattered easily. But it seems that our protagonist can prevent it by magic.



      Second problem is the density. The average density of steel is around 8 gram/cm3. The density of ice is 0.9 gram/cm3, which is almost 10 times lighter. So if you go just by replicating the shape of a katana blade in ice, it will weigh around 90-110 grams (katana blade without hilt and fittings is supposed to weight from 800 to 1000 grams, as far as I remember).



      Using katana hilt with the blade as light as 100 grams will be a problem of its own, if you want to use it as a sword, especially against other people with swords. A weapon that light will have problems cutting because of the lack of the mass in the blade, it's easy to block or batter aside with a heavier weapon. Generally, cutting swords rarely went down below 600 grams in overall weight, and specialized cutting swords (ones able to do damage to bones and wood) very rarely weighed less then 800 grams (Here is some data on the weights of different variants of British 1796 light cavalry sabers, one of the lightest effective cutters I know of). But calculating the weight of a cutting sword mathematically is a very tricky proposition - it's more of an engineering task, not purely mathematical. A lot of nuance lays in the physical properties of materials, their flexibility and strength. If we assume a material with infinite tensile strength, infinite sharpness and infinite slickness (zero friction), then we may go lighter then 600 grams for a sword.



      As far as I see, your character can circumvent the problem in two ways, both of which will be decidedly magical. First, we can assume she can also vary the density of ice at will - then your ice blade would weight just as much as a steel one, and for all effects and purposes it will behave as a metal weapon, as far as handling and balance is concerned. So upwards from 800 grams if it's a katana blade, less (around 600-700) if it's a thinner and broader one, like tulwar or 1796.



      Second variant is treating 'water' as an advanced nanomaterial. Here, again, we don't care that it's water before magic starts acting on it. In effect, what you want is a mono-molecular blade - one molecule in thickness, but of the length and breadth of a sword blade. The amount of water for this task will be trivial, less then 10 grams, I think.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      That's a tricky question, because a lot of problems can be circumvented by saying 'because magic'.



      First problem is that ice is much more brittle then steel, so a cutting sword made of ice with be shattered easily. But it seems that our protagonist can prevent it by magic.



      Second problem is the density. The average density of steel is around 8 gram/cm3. The density of ice is 0.9 gram/cm3, which is almost 10 times lighter. So if you go just by replicating the shape of a katana blade in ice, it will weigh around 90-110 grams (katana blade without hilt and fittings is supposed to weight from 800 to 1000 grams, as far as I remember).



      Using katana hilt with the blade as light as 100 grams will be a problem of its own, if you want to use it as a sword, especially against other people with swords. A weapon that light will have problems cutting because of the lack of the mass in the blade, it's easy to block or batter aside with a heavier weapon. Generally, cutting swords rarely went down below 600 grams in overall weight, and specialized cutting swords (ones able to do damage to bones and wood) very rarely weighed less then 800 grams (Here is some data on the weights of different variants of British 1796 light cavalry sabers, one of the lightest effective cutters I know of). But calculating the weight of a cutting sword mathematically is a very tricky proposition - it's more of an engineering task, not purely mathematical. A lot of nuance lays in the physical properties of materials, their flexibility and strength. If we assume a material with infinite tensile strength, infinite sharpness and infinite slickness (zero friction), then we may go lighter then 600 grams for a sword.



      As far as I see, your character can circumvent the problem in two ways, both of which will be decidedly magical. First, we can assume she can also vary the density of ice at will - then your ice blade would weight just as much as a steel one, and for all effects and purposes it will behave as a metal weapon, as far as handling and balance is concerned. So upwards from 800 grams if it's a katana blade, less (around 600-700) if it's a thinner and broader one, like tulwar or 1796.



      Second variant is treating 'water' as an advanced nanomaterial. Here, again, we don't care that it's water before magic starts acting on it. In effect, what you want is a mono-molecular blade - one molecule in thickness, but of the length and breadth of a sword blade. The amount of water for this task will be trivial, less then 10 grams, I think.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Jun 2 at 7:00









      Brythan

      22.1k84388




      22.1k84388










      answered May 31 at 11:26









      CumehtarCumehtar

      3,780628




      3,780628











      • $begingroup$
        Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 11:36










      • $begingroup$
        @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 11:46










      • $begingroup$
        Makes sense. Thanks
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 13:07






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
        $endgroup$
        – Admiral Jota
        May 31 at 17:15
















      • $begingroup$
        Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 11:36










      • $begingroup$
        @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
        $endgroup$
        – Cumehtar
        May 31 at 11:46










      • $begingroup$
        Makes sense. Thanks
        $endgroup$
        – Nass King
        May 31 at 13:07






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
        $endgroup$
        – Admiral Jota
        May 31 at 17:15















      $begingroup$
      Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
      $endgroup$
      – Nass King
      May 31 at 11:36




      $begingroup$
      Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I have one major question though. If the sword is made as you proposed in the final line, will it be able to parry other sword attacks? I thought about it and came up with an idea but I don't think it works very well. I assumed this character will be capable of a sort of "parry-less" sword style. In this style she can attack faster and turn her sword back to water right before it makes contact with the opponent's sword. So basically, her katana goes through the opponent's sword, "hardens" again and slashes his head off.
      $endgroup$
      – Nass King
      May 31 at 11:36












      $begingroup$
      @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
      $endgroup$
      – Cumehtar
      May 31 at 11:46




      $begingroup$
      @NassKing I do not think you will be able to parry effectively with a sword that light. As for fighting without blade contact - yes, it's possible, but it's hard. You need to be a very good judge of distance and have very good footwork. Having extremely light blade with help, but she will have problems, especially if pressed into corner without much room to maneuver. Rapidly shortening distance into grappling will also work good against her, since in the close distance the opponent will be able to just grab her wrist, effectively preventing her from cutting.
      $endgroup$
      – Cumehtar
      May 31 at 11:46












      $begingroup$
      Makes sense. Thanks
      $endgroup$
      – Nass King
      May 31 at 13:07




      $begingroup$
      Makes sense. Thanks
      $endgroup$
      – Nass King
      May 31 at 13:07




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
      $endgroup$
      – Admiral Jota
      May 31 at 17:15




      $begingroup$
      If it's a mono-molecular blade, would it be able to just cut through the opponent's weapon?
      $endgroup$
      – Admiral Jota
      May 31 at 17:15











      0












      $begingroup$

      Not quite a katana



      You need about half a liter or less of water, so it comfortably fits an arm bracer. What you need next is energy.



      Water by itself cuts very little, and ice is too weak and brittle to form a blade (you can still stab with it though).



      Your water-mage must follow a different approach: the "katana" is actually two laminar sheets of water and ice crystals, one twentieth of a millimeter thick, held together by a pressure in excess of 600 MPa, and flowing one into the other at three times the speed of sound. Under these conditions, ordinary water will cut through hardened steel, though slowly. You do not have a katana, but a water chainsaw plus drill.



      Used to stab, this katana will go through a 1mm thick steel armour plate in about two seconds, and the body behind in not much more.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        0












        $begingroup$

        Not quite a katana



        You need about half a liter or less of water, so it comfortably fits an arm bracer. What you need next is energy.



        Water by itself cuts very little, and ice is too weak and brittle to form a blade (you can still stab with it though).



        Your water-mage must follow a different approach: the "katana" is actually two laminar sheets of water and ice crystals, one twentieth of a millimeter thick, held together by a pressure in excess of 600 MPa, and flowing one into the other at three times the speed of sound. Under these conditions, ordinary water will cut through hardened steel, though slowly. You do not have a katana, but a water chainsaw plus drill.



        Used to stab, this katana will go through a 1mm thick steel armour plate in about two seconds, and the body behind in not much more.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Not quite a katana



          You need about half a liter or less of water, so it comfortably fits an arm bracer. What you need next is energy.



          Water by itself cuts very little, and ice is too weak and brittle to form a blade (you can still stab with it though).



          Your water-mage must follow a different approach: the "katana" is actually two laminar sheets of water and ice crystals, one twentieth of a millimeter thick, held together by a pressure in excess of 600 MPa, and flowing one into the other at three times the speed of sound. Under these conditions, ordinary water will cut through hardened steel, though slowly. You do not have a katana, but a water chainsaw plus drill.



          Used to stab, this katana will go through a 1mm thick steel armour plate in about two seconds, and the body behind in not much more.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Not quite a katana



          You need about half a liter or less of water, so it comfortably fits an arm bracer. What you need next is energy.



          Water by itself cuts very little, and ice is too weak and brittle to form a blade (you can still stab with it though).



          Your water-mage must follow a different approach: the "katana" is actually two laminar sheets of water and ice crystals, one twentieth of a millimeter thick, held together by a pressure in excess of 600 MPa, and flowing one into the other at three times the speed of sound. Under these conditions, ordinary water will cut through hardened steel, though slowly. You do not have a katana, but a water chainsaw plus drill.



          Used to stab, this katana will go through a 1mm thick steel armour plate in about two seconds, and the body behind in not much more.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Jun 2 at 8:52









          LSerniLSerni

          31.5k257102




          31.5k257102





















              0












              $begingroup$

              A monomolecular blade



              This would use a tiny amount of water and be sharp enough to cut through most substances.



              Have your magic user put her energy into aligning and strengthening the intermolecular bonds. Water molecules are chevron shaped. Align them head to tail.



              An individual molecule is ~2.75 angstrom, 10 -10 m. Allow ~30% overlap. So 2 A per molecule.



              You need 5 billion molecules, 5 x 109 for a 1 m blade.
              1 molecule weighs 18.02 amu.



              1 amu = 1.661 x 10-27 kg.



              5 x109 x 1.661x10 -27 x 18.02 = 150x10-18 kg.



              0.15 femtograms!



              It will be completely invisible.



              Magic user draws what looks like a sword handle from her belt and adopts a stance. Bad guys fall about laughing. She swings a cut. Nearest bad guy slides in two invisibly sliced from shoulder to hip. Bad guys stop laughing.



              There could also be an element where she can vary the length. A very scary weapon.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                A very stiff molecular whip!
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                Jun 3 at 20:24















              0












              $begingroup$

              A monomolecular blade



              This would use a tiny amount of water and be sharp enough to cut through most substances.



              Have your magic user put her energy into aligning and strengthening the intermolecular bonds. Water molecules are chevron shaped. Align them head to tail.



              An individual molecule is ~2.75 angstrom, 10 -10 m. Allow ~30% overlap. So 2 A per molecule.



              You need 5 billion molecules, 5 x 109 for a 1 m blade.
              1 molecule weighs 18.02 amu.



              1 amu = 1.661 x 10-27 kg.



              5 x109 x 1.661x10 -27 x 18.02 = 150x10-18 kg.



              0.15 femtograms!



              It will be completely invisible.



              Magic user draws what looks like a sword handle from her belt and adopts a stance. Bad guys fall about laughing. She swings a cut. Nearest bad guy slides in two invisibly sliced from shoulder to hip. Bad guys stop laughing.



              There could also be an element where she can vary the length. A very scary weapon.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                A very stiff molecular whip!
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                Jun 3 at 20:24













              0












              0








              0





              $begingroup$

              A monomolecular blade



              This would use a tiny amount of water and be sharp enough to cut through most substances.



              Have your magic user put her energy into aligning and strengthening the intermolecular bonds. Water molecules are chevron shaped. Align them head to tail.



              An individual molecule is ~2.75 angstrom, 10 -10 m. Allow ~30% overlap. So 2 A per molecule.



              You need 5 billion molecules, 5 x 109 for a 1 m blade.
              1 molecule weighs 18.02 amu.



              1 amu = 1.661 x 10-27 kg.



              5 x109 x 1.661x10 -27 x 18.02 = 150x10-18 kg.



              0.15 femtograms!



              It will be completely invisible.



              Magic user draws what looks like a sword handle from her belt and adopts a stance. Bad guys fall about laughing. She swings a cut. Nearest bad guy slides in two invisibly sliced from shoulder to hip. Bad guys stop laughing.



              There could also be an element where she can vary the length. A very scary weapon.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              A monomolecular blade



              This would use a tiny amount of water and be sharp enough to cut through most substances.



              Have your magic user put her energy into aligning and strengthening the intermolecular bonds. Water molecules are chevron shaped. Align them head to tail.



              An individual molecule is ~2.75 angstrom, 10 -10 m. Allow ~30% overlap. So 2 A per molecule.



              You need 5 billion molecules, 5 x 109 for a 1 m blade.
              1 molecule weighs 18.02 amu.



              1 amu = 1.661 x 10-27 kg.



              5 x109 x 1.661x10 -27 x 18.02 = 150x10-18 kg.



              0.15 femtograms!



              It will be completely invisible.



              Magic user draws what looks like a sword handle from her belt and adopts a stance. Bad guys fall about laughing. She swings a cut. Nearest bad guy slides in two invisibly sliced from shoulder to hip. Bad guys stop laughing.



              There could also be an element where she can vary the length. A very scary weapon.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Jun 2 at 13:35

























              answered Jun 2 at 13:29









              pHredpHred

              2,171713




              2,171713











              • $begingroup$
                A very stiff molecular whip!
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                Jun 3 at 20:24
















              • $begingroup$
                A very stiff molecular whip!
                $endgroup$
                – Muuski
                Jun 3 at 20:24















              $begingroup$
              A very stiff molecular whip!
              $endgroup$
              – Muuski
              Jun 3 at 20:24




              $begingroup$
              A very stiff molecular whip!
              $endgroup$
              – Muuski
              Jun 3 at 20:24











              0












              $begingroup$

              You could also consider adding impurities to the water (there is some precedent for this in fantasy stories, see Avatar: The Last Airbender where certain water benders are capable of "bending" blood due to its high water content, and metal benders are earth benders who can manipulate metal by the "impurities" in it).



              As a practical example, there is a real world material known as pykrete (a mixture of water ice and sawdust) which has properties similar to concrete.



              Mechanical properties | Ice | Concrete | Pykrete
              ---
              Crushing strength [MPa] | 3.447 | 17.240 | 7.584
              Tensile strength [MPa] | 1.103 | 1.724 | 4.826
              Density [kg/m³] | 910 | 2500 | 980


              There are also variants which use hemp or newspaper to increase the tensile strength. Its not a stretch to envision that this user might have some specific recipe which creates a stronger pysteel composite for instance (the alchemy of their specific water mixture could also be a source of on going experimentation or the gauntlet might have different compartments of suspensions which can be swapped out to provide different physical properties of the final sword).



              Returning to the actual question assuming the user is creating a standard size katana you would effectively just need to use the formula



              Volume(blade) = Volume(water) * .91


              where we assume the standard expansion of 9% volume increase during freezing (I'm not a materials expert so I'm not sure if the expansion of pure water during freezing would be identical to that of an impure mixture but I assume relative parity here).






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                0












                $begingroup$

                You could also consider adding impurities to the water (there is some precedent for this in fantasy stories, see Avatar: The Last Airbender where certain water benders are capable of "bending" blood due to its high water content, and metal benders are earth benders who can manipulate metal by the "impurities" in it).



                As a practical example, there is a real world material known as pykrete (a mixture of water ice and sawdust) which has properties similar to concrete.



                Mechanical properties | Ice | Concrete | Pykrete
                ---
                Crushing strength [MPa] | 3.447 | 17.240 | 7.584
                Tensile strength [MPa] | 1.103 | 1.724 | 4.826
                Density [kg/m³] | 910 | 2500 | 980


                There are also variants which use hemp or newspaper to increase the tensile strength. Its not a stretch to envision that this user might have some specific recipe which creates a stronger pysteel composite for instance (the alchemy of their specific water mixture could also be a source of on going experimentation or the gauntlet might have different compartments of suspensions which can be swapped out to provide different physical properties of the final sword).



                Returning to the actual question assuming the user is creating a standard size katana you would effectively just need to use the formula



                Volume(blade) = Volume(water) * .91


                where we assume the standard expansion of 9% volume increase during freezing (I'm not a materials expert so I'm not sure if the expansion of pure water during freezing would be identical to that of an impure mixture but I assume relative parity here).






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  You could also consider adding impurities to the water (there is some precedent for this in fantasy stories, see Avatar: The Last Airbender where certain water benders are capable of "bending" blood due to its high water content, and metal benders are earth benders who can manipulate metal by the "impurities" in it).



                  As a practical example, there is a real world material known as pykrete (a mixture of water ice and sawdust) which has properties similar to concrete.



                  Mechanical properties | Ice | Concrete | Pykrete
                  ---
                  Crushing strength [MPa] | 3.447 | 17.240 | 7.584
                  Tensile strength [MPa] | 1.103 | 1.724 | 4.826
                  Density [kg/m³] | 910 | 2500 | 980


                  There are also variants which use hemp or newspaper to increase the tensile strength. Its not a stretch to envision that this user might have some specific recipe which creates a stronger pysteel composite for instance (the alchemy of their specific water mixture could also be a source of on going experimentation or the gauntlet might have different compartments of suspensions which can be swapped out to provide different physical properties of the final sword).



                  Returning to the actual question assuming the user is creating a standard size katana you would effectively just need to use the formula



                  Volume(blade) = Volume(water) * .91


                  where we assume the standard expansion of 9% volume increase during freezing (I'm not a materials expert so I'm not sure if the expansion of pure water during freezing would be identical to that of an impure mixture but I assume relative parity here).






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  You could also consider adding impurities to the water (there is some precedent for this in fantasy stories, see Avatar: The Last Airbender where certain water benders are capable of "bending" blood due to its high water content, and metal benders are earth benders who can manipulate metal by the "impurities" in it).



                  As a practical example, there is a real world material known as pykrete (a mixture of water ice and sawdust) which has properties similar to concrete.



                  Mechanical properties | Ice | Concrete | Pykrete
                  ---
                  Crushing strength [MPa] | 3.447 | 17.240 | 7.584
                  Tensile strength [MPa] | 1.103 | 1.724 | 4.826
                  Density [kg/m³] | 910 | 2500 | 980


                  There are also variants which use hemp or newspaper to increase the tensile strength. Its not a stretch to envision that this user might have some specific recipe which creates a stronger pysteel composite for instance (the alchemy of their specific water mixture could also be a source of on going experimentation or the gauntlet might have different compartments of suspensions which can be swapped out to provide different physical properties of the final sword).



                  Returning to the actual question assuming the user is creating a standard size katana you would effectively just need to use the formula



                  Volume(blade) = Volume(water) * .91


                  where we assume the standard expansion of 9% volume increase during freezing (I'm not a materials expert so I'm not sure if the expansion of pure water during freezing would be identical to that of an impure mixture but I assume relative parity here).







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Jun 6 at 3:34









                  paulpdanielspaulpdaniels

                  1012




                  1012



























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded
















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f148113%2fhow-much-water-is-needed-to-create-a-katana-capable-of-cutting-flesh-bones-and%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      How to write a 12-bar blues melodyI-IV-V blues progressionHow to play the bridges in a standard blues progressionHow does Gdim7 fit in C# minor?question on a certain chord progressionMusicology of Melody12 bar blues, spread rhythm: alternative to 6th chord to avoid finger stretchChord progressions/ Root key/ MelodiesHow to put chords (POP-EDM) under a given lead vocal melody (starting from a good knowledge in music theory)Are there “rules” for improvising with the minor pentatonic scale over 12-bar shuffle?Confusion about blues scale and chords

                      What if the end-user didn't have the required library?What is setup.py?What is a clean, pythonic way to have multiple constructors in Python?What does Ruby have that Python doesn't, and vice versa?What is the reason for having '//' in Python?How do I create a namespace package in Python?How to package shared objects that python modules depend on?setuptools vs. distutils: why is distutils still a thing?Navigation in Windows 10 vs code not going to virtualenv library when the same library is installed at user levelPython create package for local usePackaging a project that uses multiple python versionsWhy is permission denied on pip install except for when “--user” is included at end of command?

                      Esgonzo ibérico Índice Descrición Distribución Hábitat Ameazas Notas Véxase tamén "Acerca dos nomes dos anfibios e réptiles galegos""Chalcides bedriagai"Chalcides bedriagai en Carrascal, L. M. Salvador, A. (Eds). Enciclopedia virtual de los vertebrados españoles. Museo Nacional de Ciencias Naturales, Madrid. España.Fotos