Is it possible for a vehicle to be manufactured without a catalytic converter?How to determine by ear which part of exhaust needs replacing?How to install a California oxygen sensor into a federal catalytic converter assembly?Locating the O2 sensors and the cat along the exhaustHelp me understand catalytic converters and exhaust restrictionDo I have a Bad Catalytic Converter?97 Yukon 5.7 Backfired with smoke inside the car, now idles really badlyWill dislodging carbon deposits harm the catalytic converter?Catalytic converter without heat shield?Catalytic Converter self-serviceHow many catalytic converters does a VW CC 2010 2.0L Sport have?
Why aren't non-isolated DC-DC converters made for high wattage applications?
How does the spell Remove Curse interact with a Sword of Vengeance?
Would it be a copyright violation if I made a character’s full name refer to a song?
Do I have to explain the mechanical superiority of the player-character within the fiction of the game?
Parameterize chained calls to a utility program in Bash
What did River say when she woke from her proto-comatose state?
.NET executes a SQL query and Active Monitor shows multiple rows blocking each other
What reason would an alien civilization have for building a Dyson Sphere (or Swarm) if cheap Nuclear fusion is available?
Impossible darts scores
Should developer taking test phones home or put in office?
How long would it take to cross the Channel in 1890's?
How does a blind passenger not die, if driver becomes unconscious
Trainee keeps missing deadlines for independent learning
Why tighten down in a criss-cross pattern?
If I wouldn't want to read the story, is writing it still a good idea?
What does it mean to "control target player"?
How to make clear to people I don't want to answer their "Where are you from?" question?
How dangerous are set-size assumptions?
Why use cross notes in sheet music for hip hop tracks?
Why do all the teams that I have worked with always finish a sprint without completion of all the stories?
How large would a mega structure have to be to host 1 billion people indefinitely?
Is it illegal to withhold someone's passport and green card in California?
Why is prior to creation called holy?
Greeting with "Ho"
Is it possible for a vehicle to be manufactured without a catalytic converter?
How to determine by ear which part of exhaust needs replacing?How to install a California oxygen sensor into a federal catalytic converter assembly?Locating the O2 sensors and the cat along the exhaustHelp me understand catalytic converters and exhaust restrictionDo I have a Bad Catalytic Converter?97 Yukon 5.7 Backfired with smoke inside the car, now idles really badlyWill dislodging carbon deposits harm the catalytic converter?Catalytic converter without heat shield?Catalytic Converter self-serviceHow many catalytic converters does a VW CC 2010 2.0L Sport have?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
Can a new vehicle from a plant be produced without a catalytic converter?
Is it possible? I am a lecturer at a college in Zimbabwe, and my students recently asked this question, so I am researching.
exhaust
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
|
show 6 more comments
Can a new vehicle from a plant be produced without a catalytic converter?
Is it possible? I am a lecturer at a college in Zimbabwe, and my students recently asked this question, so I am researching.
exhaust
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
36
@RozzA "it is just for converting the 'warming-up' emissions from your engine." Are you sure about that? Wikipedia says, essentially, the exact opposite: that most of the emissions from cat-fitted cars come in the first few minutes because the cat is ineffective until it's warmed up enough. And the whole point of a catalyst is that it isn't used up: it merely facilitates a chemical reaction. So the other claim in your comment sounds very dubious, too.
– David Richerby
Jun 5 at 21:28
36
@RozzA Not true - catalysts do not get "used up". It certainly is possible to poison a catalyst with leaded fuel, but that only needs a few trips at most to kill the cat. Most countries following CARB, EURO or similar emissions rules require regular emissions tests, and it simply is not possible to meet those emissions standards without a cat and any other related emissions control devices. FYI, I'm an ex automotive software engineer who's spent far too many years dealing with emissions and diagnostics specifications!
– Graham
Jun 5 at 22:28
3
@Paulster2 Remarkably trusting of them. In the UK they stick a probe up the exhaust. Of course it doesn't catch everything, but it reduces the options for cheating, at least for petrol (gasoline) - diesel emissions are mostly particulates and can't be tested so easily. As for "all you have to do", it's not necessarily easy to do that (depending on the ECU of course), or at least to do it in a way which the tester won't pick up.
– Graham
Jun 6 at 1:06
8
@RozzA no, that's just some nonsense made up by hotrod types to rationalize hacking the cat off the car... My cat was effective for at least 15 years...
– Harper
Jun 6 at 14:23
2
@CarlWitthoft No, but your power plant probably does!
– David Richerby
Jun 7 at 15:30
|
show 6 more comments
Can a new vehicle from a plant be produced without a catalytic converter?
Is it possible? I am a lecturer at a college in Zimbabwe, and my students recently asked this question, so I am researching.
exhaust
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
Can a new vehicle from a plant be produced without a catalytic converter?
Is it possible? I am a lecturer at a college in Zimbabwe, and my students recently asked this question, so I am researching.
exhaust
exhaust
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
edited Jun 6 at 7:50
donjuedo
1032
1032
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
asked Jun 5 at 10:01
Charly K MwamberCharly K Mwamber
6113
6113
36
@RozzA "it is just for converting the 'warming-up' emissions from your engine." Are you sure about that? Wikipedia says, essentially, the exact opposite: that most of the emissions from cat-fitted cars come in the first few minutes because the cat is ineffective until it's warmed up enough. And the whole point of a catalyst is that it isn't used up: it merely facilitates a chemical reaction. So the other claim in your comment sounds very dubious, too.
– David Richerby
Jun 5 at 21:28
36
@RozzA Not true - catalysts do not get "used up". It certainly is possible to poison a catalyst with leaded fuel, but that only needs a few trips at most to kill the cat. Most countries following CARB, EURO or similar emissions rules require regular emissions tests, and it simply is not possible to meet those emissions standards without a cat and any other related emissions control devices. FYI, I'm an ex automotive software engineer who's spent far too many years dealing with emissions and diagnostics specifications!
– Graham
Jun 5 at 22:28
3
@Paulster2 Remarkably trusting of them. In the UK they stick a probe up the exhaust. Of course it doesn't catch everything, but it reduces the options for cheating, at least for petrol (gasoline) - diesel emissions are mostly particulates and can't be tested so easily. As for "all you have to do", it's not necessarily easy to do that (depending on the ECU of course), or at least to do it in a way which the tester won't pick up.
– Graham
Jun 6 at 1:06
8
@RozzA no, that's just some nonsense made up by hotrod types to rationalize hacking the cat off the car... My cat was effective for at least 15 years...
– Harper
Jun 6 at 14:23
2
@CarlWitthoft No, but your power plant probably does!
– David Richerby
Jun 7 at 15:30
|
show 6 more comments
36
@RozzA "it is just for converting the 'warming-up' emissions from your engine." Are you sure about that? Wikipedia says, essentially, the exact opposite: that most of the emissions from cat-fitted cars come in the first few minutes because the cat is ineffective until it's warmed up enough. And the whole point of a catalyst is that it isn't used up: it merely facilitates a chemical reaction. So the other claim in your comment sounds very dubious, too.
– David Richerby
Jun 5 at 21:28
36
@RozzA Not true - catalysts do not get "used up". It certainly is possible to poison a catalyst with leaded fuel, but that only needs a few trips at most to kill the cat. Most countries following CARB, EURO or similar emissions rules require regular emissions tests, and it simply is not possible to meet those emissions standards without a cat and any other related emissions control devices. FYI, I'm an ex automotive software engineer who's spent far too many years dealing with emissions and diagnostics specifications!
– Graham
Jun 5 at 22:28
3
@Paulster2 Remarkably trusting of them. In the UK they stick a probe up the exhaust. Of course it doesn't catch everything, but it reduces the options for cheating, at least for petrol (gasoline) - diesel emissions are mostly particulates and can't be tested so easily. As for "all you have to do", it's not necessarily easy to do that (depending on the ECU of course), or at least to do it in a way which the tester won't pick up.
– Graham
Jun 6 at 1:06
8
@RozzA no, that's just some nonsense made up by hotrod types to rationalize hacking the cat off the car... My cat was effective for at least 15 years...
– Harper
Jun 6 at 14:23
2
@CarlWitthoft No, but your power plant probably does!
– David Richerby
Jun 7 at 15:30
36
36
@RozzA "it is just for converting the 'warming-up' emissions from your engine." Are you sure about that? Wikipedia says, essentially, the exact opposite: that most of the emissions from cat-fitted cars come in the first few minutes because the cat is ineffective until it's warmed up enough. And the whole point of a catalyst is that it isn't used up: it merely facilitates a chemical reaction. So the other claim in your comment sounds very dubious, too.
– David Richerby
Jun 5 at 21:28
@RozzA "it is just for converting the 'warming-up' emissions from your engine." Are you sure about that? Wikipedia says, essentially, the exact opposite: that most of the emissions from cat-fitted cars come in the first few minutes because the cat is ineffective until it's warmed up enough. And the whole point of a catalyst is that it isn't used up: it merely facilitates a chemical reaction. So the other claim in your comment sounds very dubious, too.
– David Richerby
Jun 5 at 21:28
36
36
@RozzA Not true - catalysts do not get "used up". It certainly is possible to poison a catalyst with leaded fuel, but that only needs a few trips at most to kill the cat. Most countries following CARB, EURO or similar emissions rules require regular emissions tests, and it simply is not possible to meet those emissions standards without a cat and any other related emissions control devices. FYI, I'm an ex automotive software engineer who's spent far too many years dealing with emissions and diagnostics specifications!
– Graham
Jun 5 at 22:28
@RozzA Not true - catalysts do not get "used up". It certainly is possible to poison a catalyst with leaded fuel, but that only needs a few trips at most to kill the cat. Most countries following CARB, EURO or similar emissions rules require regular emissions tests, and it simply is not possible to meet those emissions standards without a cat and any other related emissions control devices. FYI, I'm an ex automotive software engineer who's spent far too many years dealing with emissions and diagnostics specifications!
– Graham
Jun 5 at 22:28
3
3
@Paulster2 Remarkably trusting of them. In the UK they stick a probe up the exhaust. Of course it doesn't catch everything, but it reduces the options for cheating, at least for petrol (gasoline) - diesel emissions are mostly particulates and can't be tested so easily. As for "all you have to do", it's not necessarily easy to do that (depending on the ECU of course), or at least to do it in a way which the tester won't pick up.
– Graham
Jun 6 at 1:06
@Paulster2 Remarkably trusting of them. In the UK they stick a probe up the exhaust. Of course it doesn't catch everything, but it reduces the options for cheating, at least for petrol (gasoline) - diesel emissions are mostly particulates and can't be tested so easily. As for "all you have to do", it's not necessarily easy to do that (depending on the ECU of course), or at least to do it in a way which the tester won't pick up.
– Graham
Jun 6 at 1:06
8
8
@RozzA no, that's just some nonsense made up by hotrod types to rationalize hacking the cat off the car... My cat was effective for at least 15 years...
– Harper
Jun 6 at 14:23
@RozzA no, that's just some nonsense made up by hotrod types to rationalize hacking the cat off the car... My cat was effective for at least 15 years...
– Harper
Jun 6 at 14:23
2
2
@CarlWitthoft No, but your power plant probably does!
– David Richerby
Jun 7 at 15:30
@CarlWitthoft No, but your power plant probably does!
– David Richerby
Jun 7 at 15:30
|
show 6 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
You don't have to have an catalytic converter, they aren't required for the operation of an engine. Catalytic converters use chemical reactions to reduce the pollution in internal combustion engine exhaust, and are emissions control devices which are required by regulation in many countries. So it's technologically possible to build a car without one, it just may not be legal depending on where you are.
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
7
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
add a comment |
That will depend on the market regulations for the target country ie which country that vehicle will be sold in.
Cars built to be sold in Europe & US have to meet stringent regulations as regards emissions so they are required to have a catalytic converter.
Other countries may not (yet) have that requirement, so a "cat"may not be necessary.
The large car manufacturers have been known to "use" this - when tighter emissions legislation came in in the Eu, some car manufacturers had stocks of engine that were no longer fit for the EU market. These were then sold in other markets...
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
4
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
1
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
1
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
4
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
5
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
|
show 1 more comment
Yes, in theory. The government doesn't care how your engine hits the required emissions numbers. As an engine designer, you get a tabula rasa, and are free to build any system that will do the job.
Catalytic converters seem to be a winning choice for most if not all engine builders, because engine building is largely a costing game and cats are the easiest way to hit a price point. A big part of why they hit a price point is that they are already mass produced and readily available both in prototyping and in mass production at scale.
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
1
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
add a comment |
No Telsa has a cat. While you could bolt one to a Tesla it would serve no purpose.
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
1
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
1
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
3
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
2
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
|
show 1 more comment
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "224"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmechanics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f67786%2fis-it-possible-for-a-vehicle-to-be-manufactured-without-a-catalytic-converter%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
You don't have to have an catalytic converter, they aren't required for the operation of an engine. Catalytic converters use chemical reactions to reduce the pollution in internal combustion engine exhaust, and are emissions control devices which are required by regulation in many countries. So it's technologically possible to build a car without one, it just may not be legal depending on where you are.
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
7
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
add a comment |
You don't have to have an catalytic converter, they aren't required for the operation of an engine. Catalytic converters use chemical reactions to reduce the pollution in internal combustion engine exhaust, and are emissions control devices which are required by regulation in many countries. So it's technologically possible to build a car without one, it just may not be legal depending on where you are.
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
7
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
add a comment |
You don't have to have an catalytic converter, they aren't required for the operation of an engine. Catalytic converters use chemical reactions to reduce the pollution in internal combustion engine exhaust, and are emissions control devices which are required by regulation in many countries. So it's technologically possible to build a car without one, it just may not be legal depending on where you are.
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
You don't have to have an catalytic converter, they aren't required for the operation of an engine. Catalytic converters use chemical reactions to reduce the pollution in internal combustion engine exhaust, and are emissions control devices which are required by regulation in many countries. So it's technologically possible to build a car without one, it just may not be legal depending on where you are.
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
edited Jun 6 at 13:41
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
answered Jun 5 at 13:09
GdDGdD
6,3931427
6,3931427
7
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
add a comment |
7
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
7
7
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
On top of that, electrical cars do not need one (for obvious reasons) and most marine engines also do not always require one
– Horkrine
Jun 6 at 12:56
add a comment |
That will depend on the market regulations for the target country ie which country that vehicle will be sold in.
Cars built to be sold in Europe & US have to meet stringent regulations as regards emissions so they are required to have a catalytic converter.
Other countries may not (yet) have that requirement, so a "cat"may not be necessary.
The large car manufacturers have been known to "use" this - when tighter emissions legislation came in in the Eu, some car manufacturers had stocks of engine that were no longer fit for the EU market. These were then sold in other markets...
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
4
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
1
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
1
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
4
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
5
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
|
show 1 more comment
That will depend on the market regulations for the target country ie which country that vehicle will be sold in.
Cars built to be sold in Europe & US have to meet stringent regulations as regards emissions so they are required to have a catalytic converter.
Other countries may not (yet) have that requirement, so a "cat"may not be necessary.
The large car manufacturers have been known to "use" this - when tighter emissions legislation came in in the Eu, some car manufacturers had stocks of engine that were no longer fit for the EU market. These were then sold in other markets...
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
4
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
1
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
1
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
4
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
5
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
|
show 1 more comment
That will depend on the market regulations for the target country ie which country that vehicle will be sold in.
Cars built to be sold in Europe & US have to meet stringent regulations as regards emissions so they are required to have a catalytic converter.
Other countries may not (yet) have that requirement, so a "cat"may not be necessary.
The large car manufacturers have been known to "use" this - when tighter emissions legislation came in in the Eu, some car manufacturers had stocks of engine that were no longer fit for the EU market. These were then sold in other markets...
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
That will depend on the market regulations for the target country ie which country that vehicle will be sold in.
Cars built to be sold in Europe & US have to meet stringent regulations as regards emissions so they are required to have a catalytic converter.
Other countries may not (yet) have that requirement, so a "cat"may not be necessary.
The large car manufacturers have been known to "use" this - when tighter emissions legislation came in in the Eu, some car manufacturers had stocks of engine that were no longer fit for the EU market. These were then sold in other markets...
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
answered Jun 5 at 12:10
Solar MikeSolar Mike
21.6k21539
21.6k21539
4
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
1
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
1
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
4
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
5
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
|
show 1 more comment
4
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
1
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
1
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
4
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
5
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
4
4
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
Of course the other answer to "Can a vehicle from a plant be produced without a cat" can be answered "Yes, an electric vehicle" (or a vehicle such as a racing go-kart)
– Steve Matthews
Jun 5 at 12:14
1
1
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
@SteveMatthews you can fit a cat to an electric vehicle - as an ornament... Are some countries starting to require smaller engines go-karts, lawnmowers etc to meet higher emissions standards?
– Solar Mike
Jun 5 at 12:15
1
1
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
@SolarMike: I know california has strict requirements for small engines, I'm not sure if it expands to requiring cats but their emissions are certainly a factor.
– Jesse_b
Jun 5 at 18:44
4
4
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
@SolarMike Even my 25-cc weed whacker has a cat in the US, it's a platinum coated mesh in the muffler. As Jesse_b mentions, it's because California is so sunny, they have photochemical smog problems.
– user71659
Jun 5 at 20:52
5
5
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
@user71659 And because of the geography of Western California, with mountains on one side and ocean on the other. This means that when photochemicals show up, they don't really have anywhere to go and so tend to accumulate into worse (more dense) smog than you would get in other places.
– Mason Wheeler
Jun 5 at 21:00
|
show 1 more comment
Yes, in theory. The government doesn't care how your engine hits the required emissions numbers. As an engine designer, you get a tabula rasa, and are free to build any system that will do the job.
Catalytic converters seem to be a winning choice for most if not all engine builders, because engine building is largely a costing game and cats are the easiest way to hit a price point. A big part of why they hit a price point is that they are already mass produced and readily available both in prototyping and in mass production at scale.
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
1
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
add a comment |
Yes, in theory. The government doesn't care how your engine hits the required emissions numbers. As an engine designer, you get a tabula rasa, and are free to build any system that will do the job.
Catalytic converters seem to be a winning choice for most if not all engine builders, because engine building is largely a costing game and cats are the easiest way to hit a price point. A big part of why they hit a price point is that they are already mass produced and readily available both in prototyping and in mass production at scale.
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
1
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
add a comment |
Yes, in theory. The government doesn't care how your engine hits the required emissions numbers. As an engine designer, you get a tabula rasa, and are free to build any system that will do the job.
Catalytic converters seem to be a winning choice for most if not all engine builders, because engine building is largely a costing game and cats are the easiest way to hit a price point. A big part of why they hit a price point is that they are already mass produced and readily available both in prototyping and in mass production at scale.
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
Yes, in theory. The government doesn't care how your engine hits the required emissions numbers. As an engine designer, you get a tabula rasa, and are free to build any system that will do the job.
Catalytic converters seem to be a winning choice for most if not all engine builders, because engine building is largely a costing game and cats are the easiest way to hit a price point. A big part of why they hit a price point is that they are already mass produced and readily available both in prototyping and in mass production at scale.
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
edited Jun 6 at 17:49
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
answered Jun 6 at 14:28
HarperHarper
1,717314
1,717314
1
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
add a comment |
1
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
1
1
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
Given their hobby to go against the market mainstream in almost everything, if it were possible to fulfill exhaust gas limits without a catalytic converter, Mazda would already be doing it :)
– Pavel
Jun 7 at 9:16
add a comment |
No Telsa has a cat. While you could bolt one to a Tesla it would serve no purpose.
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
1
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
1
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
3
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
2
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
|
show 1 more comment
No Telsa has a cat. While you could bolt one to a Tesla it would serve no purpose.
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
1
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
1
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
3
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
2
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
|
show 1 more comment
No Telsa has a cat. While you could bolt one to a Tesla it would serve no purpose.
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
No Telsa has a cat. While you could bolt one to a Tesla it would serve no purpose.
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
answered Jun 6 at 1:29
Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel
1814
1814
1
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
1
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
3
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
2
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
|
show 1 more comment
1
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
1
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
3
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
2
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
1
1
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
Even the Tesla may serve no purpose! whereisroadster.com No catalytic converter on the boosters, either.
– Bob Kerns
Jun 6 at 12:50
1
1
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
"No Tesla has a cat." <sup>citation needed</sup> ;)
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 15:33
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
@DonBranson Catalytic converters are for internal combustion engine cars. Teslas are battery powered, no internal combustion engine.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 7 at 16:03
3
3
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
@LorenPechtel - I know, thanks. You probably missed the wink at the end.
– Don Branson
Jun 7 at 16:07
2
2
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
@DonBranson Sorry, I've been asked for evidence of the obvious so many times over the years that I failed to note yours was a joke.
– Loren Pechtel
Jun 8 at 17:09
|
show 1 more comment
Thanks for contributing an answer to Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmechanics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f67786%2fis-it-possible-for-a-vehicle-to-be-manufactured-without-a-catalytic-converter%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
36
@RozzA "it is just for converting the 'warming-up' emissions from your engine." Are you sure about that? Wikipedia says, essentially, the exact opposite: that most of the emissions from cat-fitted cars come in the first few minutes because the cat is ineffective until it's warmed up enough. And the whole point of a catalyst is that it isn't used up: it merely facilitates a chemical reaction. So the other claim in your comment sounds very dubious, too.
– David Richerby
Jun 5 at 21:28
36
@RozzA Not true - catalysts do not get "used up". It certainly is possible to poison a catalyst with leaded fuel, but that only needs a few trips at most to kill the cat. Most countries following CARB, EURO or similar emissions rules require regular emissions tests, and it simply is not possible to meet those emissions standards without a cat and any other related emissions control devices. FYI, I'm an ex automotive software engineer who's spent far too many years dealing with emissions and diagnostics specifications!
– Graham
Jun 5 at 22:28
3
@Paulster2 Remarkably trusting of them. In the UK they stick a probe up the exhaust. Of course it doesn't catch everything, but it reduces the options for cheating, at least for petrol (gasoline) - diesel emissions are mostly particulates and can't be tested so easily. As for "all you have to do", it's not necessarily easy to do that (depending on the ECU of course), or at least to do it in a way which the tester won't pick up.
– Graham
Jun 6 at 1:06
8
@RozzA no, that's just some nonsense made up by hotrod types to rationalize hacking the cat off the car... My cat was effective for at least 15 years...
– Harper
Jun 6 at 14:23
2
@CarlWitthoft No, but your power plant probably does!
– David Richerby
Jun 7 at 15:30