Why are BJTs common in output stages of power amplifiers?I don't quite understand this FET-BJT preamp circuitOscillator Driven LED - Not OscillatingOscillation won't pass voltage bufferCan Emitter Follower BJTs work with large signal?BJT Capacitance at RF limmitationsWhy is my amplifiers frequency response unexpected?Why does the emitter follower clip?What is meant by “input/output impedence” of a transistor stage in amplifiers?Biasing high frequency BJT cascode amplifierEmitter follower and input impedance

Who will lead the country until there is a new Tory leader?

Are there any well known academic philosophy forums?

In the current era, do any wizards survive from 1372 DR?

How strong are Wi-Fi signals?

How to use " shadow " in pstricks?

How to illustrate the Mean Value theorem?

Image processing: Removal of two spots in fundus images

When and what was the first 3D acceleration device ever released?

What is the environment variable XDG_VTNR?

Employer demanding to see degree after poor code review

Employer asking for online access to bank account - Is this a scam?

What does the view outside my ship traveling at light speed look like?

Count Even Digits In Number

How to know if a folder is a symbolic link?

At what point in European history could a government build a printing press given a basic description?

Map function over ImageCollection in Python 2.7 in Earth Engine

Have 1.5% of all nuclear reactors ever built melted down?

My employer faked my resume to acquire projects

Looking for a soft substance that doesn't dissolve underwater

I think I may have violated academic integrity last year - what should I do?

How to remove the trailing ` in StringForm["Mean `1`", 2.2]?

Simple function that simulates survey results based on sample size and probability

Adding spaces to string based on list

Why do Ryanair allow me to book connecting itineraries through a third party, but not through their own website?



Why are BJTs common in output stages of power amplifiers?


I don't quite understand this FET-BJT preamp circuitOscillator Driven LED - Not OscillatingOscillation won't pass voltage bufferCan Emitter Follower BJTs work with large signal?BJT Capacitance at RF limmitationsWhy is my amplifiers frequency response unexpected?Why does the emitter follower clip?What is meant by “input/output impedence” of a transistor stage in amplifiers?Biasing high frequency BJT cascode amplifierEmitter follower and input impedance






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








15












$begingroup$


From my understanding, the role of the output stage is to decrease the output impedance to almost 0. For that, MOSFETs seem better suited since they've got way lower $R_ds$.



Yet I see quite often BJTs as buffer in discrete design, often in a Darlington configuration to increase input impedance, while only one MOSFETs would have a high enough input impedance.



My thoughts were that it was either cheaper or simpler. Power BJTs are indeed a bit cheaper than power MOSFETs, and it seems to me that it is simpler to make a relatively linear buffer with a BJT emitter follower, while a MOSFET source follower may require some feedback.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    I think the knee voltage is sharper and lower for BJT than mosfet, and that is the main reason why.
    $endgroup$
    – Harry Svensson
    May 13 at 14:38






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The problem is linear DC biasing complementary MOSFETs in the linear zone with cross-conduction and the R*Ciss effects. BJT's are much more predictable for Vbe than MOSFETs for Vgs ( 1A)
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 14:40











  • $begingroup$
    However we're not stopping you from trying to make it linear with dual negative feedback loops to reduce shoothru losses and eliminate quadratic VI effects
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 15:00











  • $begingroup$
    BJT designs are definitely cheaper overall. I wouldn't say they are so common because they sound superior to other designs.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    May 14 at 6:18

















15












$begingroup$


From my understanding, the role of the output stage is to decrease the output impedance to almost 0. For that, MOSFETs seem better suited since they've got way lower $R_ds$.



Yet I see quite often BJTs as buffer in discrete design, often in a Darlington configuration to increase input impedance, while only one MOSFETs would have a high enough input impedance.



My thoughts were that it was either cheaper or simpler. Power BJTs are indeed a bit cheaper than power MOSFETs, and it seems to me that it is simpler to make a relatively linear buffer with a BJT emitter follower, while a MOSFET source follower may require some feedback.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    I think the knee voltage is sharper and lower for BJT than mosfet, and that is the main reason why.
    $endgroup$
    – Harry Svensson
    May 13 at 14:38






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The problem is linear DC biasing complementary MOSFETs in the linear zone with cross-conduction and the R*Ciss effects. BJT's are much more predictable for Vbe than MOSFETs for Vgs ( 1A)
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 14:40











  • $begingroup$
    However we're not stopping you from trying to make it linear with dual negative feedback loops to reduce shoothru losses and eliminate quadratic VI effects
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 15:00











  • $begingroup$
    BJT designs are definitely cheaper overall. I wouldn't say they are so common because they sound superior to other designs.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    May 14 at 6:18













15












15








15


1



$begingroup$


From my understanding, the role of the output stage is to decrease the output impedance to almost 0. For that, MOSFETs seem better suited since they've got way lower $R_ds$.



Yet I see quite often BJTs as buffer in discrete design, often in a Darlington configuration to increase input impedance, while only one MOSFETs would have a high enough input impedance.



My thoughts were that it was either cheaper or simpler. Power BJTs are indeed a bit cheaper than power MOSFETs, and it seems to me that it is simpler to make a relatively linear buffer with a BJT emitter follower, while a MOSFET source follower may require some feedback.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




From my understanding, the role of the output stage is to decrease the output impedance to almost 0. For that, MOSFETs seem better suited since they've got way lower $R_ds$.



Yet I see quite often BJTs as buffer in discrete design, often in a Darlington configuration to increase input impedance, while only one MOSFETs would have a high enough input impedance.



My thoughts were that it was either cheaper or simpler. Power BJTs are indeed a bit cheaper than power MOSFETs, and it seems to me that it is simpler to make a relatively linear buffer with a BJT emitter follower, while a MOSFET source follower may require some feedback.







mosfet bjt buffer






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked May 13 at 14:29









Jonas DaverioJonas Daverio

18819




18819











  • $begingroup$
    I think the knee voltage is sharper and lower for BJT than mosfet, and that is the main reason why.
    $endgroup$
    – Harry Svensson
    May 13 at 14:38






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The problem is linear DC biasing complementary MOSFETs in the linear zone with cross-conduction and the R*Ciss effects. BJT's are much more predictable for Vbe than MOSFETs for Vgs ( 1A)
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 14:40











  • $begingroup$
    However we're not stopping you from trying to make it linear with dual negative feedback loops to reduce shoothru losses and eliminate quadratic VI effects
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 15:00











  • $begingroup$
    BJT designs are definitely cheaper overall. I wouldn't say they are so common because they sound superior to other designs.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    May 14 at 6:18
















  • $begingroup$
    I think the knee voltage is sharper and lower for BJT than mosfet, and that is the main reason why.
    $endgroup$
    – Harry Svensson
    May 13 at 14:38






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The problem is linear DC biasing complementary MOSFETs in the linear zone with cross-conduction and the R*Ciss effects. BJT's are much more predictable for Vbe than MOSFETs for Vgs ( 1A)
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 14:40











  • $begingroup$
    However we're not stopping you from trying to make it linear with dual negative feedback loops to reduce shoothru losses and eliminate quadratic VI effects
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    May 13 at 15:00











  • $begingroup$
    BJT designs are definitely cheaper overall. I wouldn't say they are so common because they sound superior to other designs.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    May 14 at 6:18















$begingroup$
I think the knee voltage is sharper and lower for BJT than mosfet, and that is the main reason why.
$endgroup$
– Harry Svensson
May 13 at 14:38




$begingroup$
I think the knee voltage is sharper and lower for BJT than mosfet, and that is the main reason why.
$endgroup$
– Harry Svensson
May 13 at 14:38




2




2




$begingroup$
The problem is linear DC biasing complementary MOSFETs in the linear zone with cross-conduction and the R*Ciss effects. BJT's are much more predictable for Vbe than MOSFETs for Vgs ( 1A)
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
May 13 at 14:40





$begingroup$
The problem is linear DC biasing complementary MOSFETs in the linear zone with cross-conduction and the R*Ciss effects. BJT's are much more predictable for Vbe than MOSFETs for Vgs ( 1A)
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
May 13 at 14:40













$begingroup$
However we're not stopping you from trying to make it linear with dual negative feedback loops to reduce shoothru losses and eliminate quadratic VI effects
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
May 13 at 15:00





$begingroup$
However we're not stopping you from trying to make it linear with dual negative feedback loops to reduce shoothru losses and eliminate quadratic VI effects
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
May 13 at 15:00













$begingroup$
BJT designs are definitely cheaper overall. I wouldn't say they are so common because they sound superior to other designs.
$endgroup$
– Todd Wilcox
May 14 at 6:18




$begingroup$
BJT designs are definitely cheaper overall. I wouldn't say they are so common because they sound superior to other designs.
$endgroup$
– Todd Wilcox
May 14 at 6:18










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















13












$begingroup$

To make an Audio Voltage source, you want the crossover voltage distortion to be null which requires some quiescent DC current > 1% of the max current. This modest distortion and output impedance is reduced further by negative feedback or excess open loop gain. The active diode bias DC voltage can be predicted in mV for the differential Darlington output stage.



However for MOSFETs the conduction threshold can vary 50% e.g. 1 to 2V or 2 to 4V, so the biasing for cross conduction to eliminate crossover distortion is not easily done with low voltage gain linear power amps.



Edit May 22:

Also, Thermal Runway exists as stated by @Thor from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode. Without proper transistor component selection, this can result in catastrophic failure.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    13












    $begingroup$

    MOSFETS used to be more common in power amplifiers, but they were often the lateral type power MOSFETS.



    Most modern MOSFETs (Vertical MOSFETs / HEXFETs) are highly optimized for switching and require very careful design in a linear amp design. For example these modern switching types have a large nonlinear gate capacitance that is difficult to drive.



    In addition the likes of HEXFETs can suffer from localized heating effects that can cause thermal runaway in a linear application.



    A good description of these issues can be found here



    Lateral MOSFETs are still available but are more quite expensive. See here



    So really it's not a case that MOSFETs cannot be used, but it's often more difficult and less cost effective to achieve the same performance and reliability for a given price point.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
      $endgroup$
      – Todd Wilcox
      May 14 at 6:16


















    11












    $begingroup$

    Second Breakdown



    (Many) Audio amplifiers operate the output stage in their linear region.



    Modern power MOSFETs are not designed to operate in the linear region. Many of them (HEXFETS) are composed of a grid of hundreds of thousands of smaller FET elements to increase power density and switching speed. Other switching-optimized MOSFET families have similar constructions, with large die areas and/or arrays of smaller elements.



    For MOSFETs, the threshold voltage has a negative temperature coefficient. As a particular area of the die / FET element gets hotter, it's threshold voltage decreases and since the MOSFET is operating in it's linear region, that area conducts a larger portion of the current, so it gets even hotter. Before long, the localized heating on a tiny fraction of the die has resulted in a short circuit, often called "Second Breakdown".



    But...



    A relatively new type of amplifier, the "Class D" amplifier, works by switching the output stage transistors on and off rapidly, at a frequency much higher than the speaker is expected to reproduce. A low-pass filter filters out the high-frequency noise, and amplification is achieved through varying the duty cycle.



    MOSFETs are extremely common in such designs, as class D amplifiers either have the output stage elements fully on or fully off. As power MOSFETs are optimized for that, that's what they are used for.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
      $endgroup$
      – Toor
      May 13 at 17:24







    • 4




      $begingroup$
      @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
      $endgroup$
      – sstobbe
      May 13 at 18:00






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
      $endgroup$
      – marcelm
      May 13 at 20:36







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
      $endgroup$
      – Sunnyskyguy EE75
      2 days ago












    Your Answer






    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
    return StackExchange.using("schematics", function ()
    StackExchange.schematics.init();
    );
    , "cicuitlab");

    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "135"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f438269%2fwhy-are-bjts-common-in-output-stages-of-power-amplifiers%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    13












    $begingroup$

    To make an Audio Voltage source, you want the crossover voltage distortion to be null which requires some quiescent DC current > 1% of the max current. This modest distortion and output impedance is reduced further by negative feedback or excess open loop gain. The active diode bias DC voltage can be predicted in mV for the differential Darlington output stage.



    However for MOSFETs the conduction threshold can vary 50% e.g. 1 to 2V or 2 to 4V, so the biasing for cross conduction to eliminate crossover distortion is not easily done with low voltage gain linear power amps.



    Edit May 22:

    Also, Thermal Runway exists as stated by @Thor from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode. Without proper transistor component selection, this can result in catastrophic failure.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      13












      $begingroup$

      To make an Audio Voltage source, you want the crossover voltage distortion to be null which requires some quiescent DC current > 1% of the max current. This modest distortion and output impedance is reduced further by negative feedback or excess open loop gain. The active diode bias DC voltage can be predicted in mV for the differential Darlington output stage.



      However for MOSFETs the conduction threshold can vary 50% e.g. 1 to 2V or 2 to 4V, so the biasing for cross conduction to eliminate crossover distortion is not easily done with low voltage gain linear power amps.



      Edit May 22:

      Also, Thermal Runway exists as stated by @Thor from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode. Without proper transistor component selection, this can result in catastrophic failure.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        13












        13








        13





        $begingroup$

        To make an Audio Voltage source, you want the crossover voltage distortion to be null which requires some quiescent DC current > 1% of the max current. This modest distortion and output impedance is reduced further by negative feedback or excess open loop gain. The active diode bias DC voltage can be predicted in mV for the differential Darlington output stage.



        However for MOSFETs the conduction threshold can vary 50% e.g. 1 to 2V or 2 to 4V, so the biasing for cross conduction to eliminate crossover distortion is not easily done with low voltage gain linear power amps.



        Edit May 22:

        Also, Thermal Runway exists as stated by @Thor from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode. Without proper transistor component selection, this can result in catastrophic failure.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        To make an Audio Voltage source, you want the crossover voltage distortion to be null which requires some quiescent DC current > 1% of the max current. This modest distortion and output impedance is reduced further by negative feedback or excess open loop gain. The active diode bias DC voltage can be predicted in mV for the differential Darlington output stage.



        However for MOSFETs the conduction threshold can vary 50% e.g. 1 to 2V or 2 to 4V, so the biasing for cross conduction to eliminate crossover distortion is not easily done with low voltage gain linear power amps.



        Edit May 22:

        Also, Thermal Runway exists as stated by @Thor from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode. Without proper transistor component selection, this can result in catastrophic failure.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 2 days ago

























        answered May 13 at 15:21









        Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

        74.5k229106




        74.5k229106























            13












            $begingroup$

            MOSFETS used to be more common in power amplifiers, but they were often the lateral type power MOSFETS.



            Most modern MOSFETs (Vertical MOSFETs / HEXFETs) are highly optimized for switching and require very careful design in a linear amp design. For example these modern switching types have a large nonlinear gate capacitance that is difficult to drive.



            In addition the likes of HEXFETs can suffer from localized heating effects that can cause thermal runaway in a linear application.



            A good description of these issues can be found here



            Lateral MOSFETs are still available but are more quite expensive. See here



            So really it's not a case that MOSFETs cannot be used, but it's often more difficult and less cost effective to achieve the same performance and reliability for a given price point.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
              $endgroup$
              – Todd Wilcox
              May 14 at 6:16















            13












            $begingroup$

            MOSFETS used to be more common in power amplifiers, but they were often the lateral type power MOSFETS.



            Most modern MOSFETs (Vertical MOSFETs / HEXFETs) are highly optimized for switching and require very careful design in a linear amp design. For example these modern switching types have a large nonlinear gate capacitance that is difficult to drive.



            In addition the likes of HEXFETs can suffer from localized heating effects that can cause thermal runaway in a linear application.



            A good description of these issues can be found here



            Lateral MOSFETs are still available but are more quite expensive. See here



            So really it's not a case that MOSFETs cannot be used, but it's often more difficult and less cost effective to achieve the same performance and reliability for a given price point.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
              $endgroup$
              – Todd Wilcox
              May 14 at 6:16













            13












            13








            13





            $begingroup$

            MOSFETS used to be more common in power amplifiers, but they were often the lateral type power MOSFETS.



            Most modern MOSFETs (Vertical MOSFETs / HEXFETs) are highly optimized for switching and require very careful design in a linear amp design. For example these modern switching types have a large nonlinear gate capacitance that is difficult to drive.



            In addition the likes of HEXFETs can suffer from localized heating effects that can cause thermal runaway in a linear application.



            A good description of these issues can be found here



            Lateral MOSFETs are still available but are more quite expensive. See here



            So really it's not a case that MOSFETs cannot be used, but it's often more difficult and less cost effective to achieve the same performance and reliability for a given price point.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            MOSFETS used to be more common in power amplifiers, but they were often the lateral type power MOSFETS.



            Most modern MOSFETs (Vertical MOSFETs / HEXFETs) are highly optimized for switching and require very careful design in a linear amp design. For example these modern switching types have a large nonlinear gate capacitance that is difficult to drive.



            In addition the likes of HEXFETs can suffer from localized heating effects that can cause thermal runaway in a linear application.



            A good description of these issues can be found here



            Lateral MOSFETs are still available but are more quite expensive. See here



            So really it's not a case that MOSFETs cannot be used, but it's often more difficult and less cost effective to achieve the same performance and reliability for a given price point.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered May 13 at 15:35









            TheMachinistTheMachinist

            34613




            34613











            • $begingroup$
              Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
              $endgroup$
              – Todd Wilcox
              May 14 at 6:16
















            • $begingroup$
              Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
              $endgroup$
              – Todd Wilcox
              May 14 at 6:16















            $begingroup$
            Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
            $endgroup$
            – Todd Wilcox
            May 14 at 6:16




            $begingroup$
            Old school MOSFET designs definitely sound different from BJT designs. Some say they sound better, and I wouldn't argue with them, but it's all a matter of taste.
            $endgroup$
            – Todd Wilcox
            May 14 at 6:16











            11












            $begingroup$

            Second Breakdown



            (Many) Audio amplifiers operate the output stage in their linear region.



            Modern power MOSFETs are not designed to operate in the linear region. Many of them (HEXFETS) are composed of a grid of hundreds of thousands of smaller FET elements to increase power density and switching speed. Other switching-optimized MOSFET families have similar constructions, with large die areas and/or arrays of smaller elements.



            For MOSFETs, the threshold voltage has a negative temperature coefficient. As a particular area of the die / FET element gets hotter, it's threshold voltage decreases and since the MOSFET is operating in it's linear region, that area conducts a larger portion of the current, so it gets even hotter. Before long, the localized heating on a tiny fraction of the die has resulted in a short circuit, often called "Second Breakdown".



            But...



            A relatively new type of amplifier, the "Class D" amplifier, works by switching the output stage transistors on and off rapidly, at a frequency much higher than the speaker is expected to reproduce. A low-pass filter filters out the high-frequency noise, and amplification is achieved through varying the duty cycle.



            MOSFETs are extremely common in such designs, as class D amplifiers either have the output stage elements fully on or fully off. As power MOSFETs are optimized for that, that's what they are used for.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
              $endgroup$
              – Toor
              May 13 at 17:24







            • 4




              $begingroup$
              @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
              $endgroup$
              – sstobbe
              May 13 at 18:00






            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
              $endgroup$
              – marcelm
              May 13 at 20:36







            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
              $endgroup$
              – Sunnyskyguy EE75
              2 days ago
















            11












            $begingroup$

            Second Breakdown



            (Many) Audio amplifiers operate the output stage in their linear region.



            Modern power MOSFETs are not designed to operate in the linear region. Many of them (HEXFETS) are composed of a grid of hundreds of thousands of smaller FET elements to increase power density and switching speed. Other switching-optimized MOSFET families have similar constructions, with large die areas and/or arrays of smaller elements.



            For MOSFETs, the threshold voltage has a negative temperature coefficient. As a particular area of the die / FET element gets hotter, it's threshold voltage decreases and since the MOSFET is operating in it's linear region, that area conducts a larger portion of the current, so it gets even hotter. Before long, the localized heating on a tiny fraction of the die has resulted in a short circuit, often called "Second Breakdown".



            But...



            A relatively new type of amplifier, the "Class D" amplifier, works by switching the output stage transistors on and off rapidly, at a frequency much higher than the speaker is expected to reproduce. A low-pass filter filters out the high-frequency noise, and amplification is achieved through varying the duty cycle.



            MOSFETs are extremely common in such designs, as class D amplifiers either have the output stage elements fully on or fully off. As power MOSFETs are optimized for that, that's what they are used for.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
              $endgroup$
              – Toor
              May 13 at 17:24







            • 4




              $begingroup$
              @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
              $endgroup$
              – sstobbe
              May 13 at 18:00






            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
              $endgroup$
              – marcelm
              May 13 at 20:36







            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
              $endgroup$
              – Sunnyskyguy EE75
              2 days ago














            11












            11








            11





            $begingroup$

            Second Breakdown



            (Many) Audio amplifiers operate the output stage in their linear region.



            Modern power MOSFETs are not designed to operate in the linear region. Many of them (HEXFETS) are composed of a grid of hundreds of thousands of smaller FET elements to increase power density and switching speed. Other switching-optimized MOSFET families have similar constructions, with large die areas and/or arrays of smaller elements.



            For MOSFETs, the threshold voltage has a negative temperature coefficient. As a particular area of the die / FET element gets hotter, it's threshold voltage decreases and since the MOSFET is operating in it's linear region, that area conducts a larger portion of the current, so it gets even hotter. Before long, the localized heating on a tiny fraction of the die has resulted in a short circuit, often called "Second Breakdown".



            But...



            A relatively new type of amplifier, the "Class D" amplifier, works by switching the output stage transistors on and off rapidly, at a frequency much higher than the speaker is expected to reproduce. A low-pass filter filters out the high-frequency noise, and amplification is achieved through varying the duty cycle.



            MOSFETs are extremely common in such designs, as class D amplifiers either have the output stage elements fully on or fully off. As power MOSFETs are optimized for that, that's what they are used for.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Second Breakdown



            (Many) Audio amplifiers operate the output stage in their linear region.



            Modern power MOSFETs are not designed to operate in the linear region. Many of them (HEXFETS) are composed of a grid of hundreds of thousands of smaller FET elements to increase power density and switching speed. Other switching-optimized MOSFET families have similar constructions, with large die areas and/or arrays of smaller elements.



            For MOSFETs, the threshold voltage has a negative temperature coefficient. As a particular area of the die / FET element gets hotter, it's threshold voltage decreases and since the MOSFET is operating in it's linear region, that area conducts a larger portion of the current, so it gets even hotter. Before long, the localized heating on a tiny fraction of the die has resulted in a short circuit, often called "Second Breakdown".



            But...



            A relatively new type of amplifier, the "Class D" amplifier, works by switching the output stage transistors on and off rapidly, at a frequency much higher than the speaker is expected to reproduce. A low-pass filter filters out the high-frequency noise, and amplification is achieved through varying the duty cycle.



            MOSFETs are extremely common in such designs, as class D amplifiers either have the output stage elements fully on or fully off. As power MOSFETs are optimized for that, that's what they are used for.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited May 14 at 1:44

























            answered May 13 at 16:01









            Thor LancasterThor Lancaster

            37816




            37816











            • $begingroup$
              -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
              $endgroup$
              – Toor
              May 13 at 17:24







            • 4




              $begingroup$
              @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
              $endgroup$
              – sstobbe
              May 13 at 18:00






            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
              $endgroup$
              – marcelm
              May 13 at 20:36







            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
              $endgroup$
              – Sunnyskyguy EE75
              2 days ago

















            • $begingroup$
              -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
              $endgroup$
              – Toor
              May 13 at 17:24







            • 4




              $begingroup$
              @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
              $endgroup$
              – sstobbe
              May 13 at 18:00






            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
              $endgroup$
              – marcelm
              May 13 at 20:36







            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
              $endgroup$
              – Sunnyskyguy EE75
              2 days ago
















            $begingroup$
            -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
            $endgroup$
            – Toor
            May 13 at 17:24





            $begingroup$
            -1 because it sounds like you are talking about MOSFET thermal runaway (when it's not an actual issue with MOSFETs, but is an issue with BJTs). You word it in a strange way though which makes it sound like you are talking about something else, therefore clarification would be required to delineate between these two effects.
            $endgroup$
            – Toor
            May 13 at 17:24





            4




            4




            $begingroup$
            @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
            $endgroup$
            – sstobbe
            May 13 at 18:00




            $begingroup$
            @toor the tempco of FET threshold voltage is negative just like a BJT. Thermal runaway is still a concern with FETs in linear mode.
            $endgroup$
            – sstobbe
            May 13 at 18:00




            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
            $endgroup$
            – marcelm
            May 13 at 20:36





            $begingroup$
            @Toor I dunno, his story seems to check out...
            $endgroup$
            – marcelm
            May 13 at 20:36





            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
            $endgroup$
            – Sunnyskyguy EE75
            2 days ago





            $begingroup$
            @Toor Thermal Runway exists as stated from the micro-array FET structures sharing-current with Vgs NTC effects in linear mode yet PTC effects for RdsOn in full conduction mode.
            $endgroup$
            – Sunnyskyguy EE75
            2 days ago


















            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f438269%2fwhy-are-bjts-common-in-output-stages-of-power-amplifiers%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            How to write a 12-bar blues melodyI-IV-V blues progressionHow to play the bridges in a standard blues progressionHow does Gdim7 fit in C# minor?question on a certain chord progressionMusicology of Melody12 bar blues, spread rhythm: alternative to 6th chord to avoid finger stretchChord progressions/ Root key/ MelodiesHow to put chords (POP-EDM) under a given lead vocal melody (starting from a good knowledge in music theory)Are there “rules” for improvising with the minor pentatonic scale over 12-bar shuffle?Confusion about blues scale and chords

            What if the end-user didn't have the required library?What is setup.py?What is a clean, pythonic way to have multiple constructors in Python?What does Ruby have that Python doesn't, and vice versa?What is the reason for having '//' in Python?How do I create a namespace package in Python?How to package shared objects that python modules depend on?setuptools vs. distutils: why is distutils still a thing?Navigation in Windows 10 vs code not going to virtualenv library when the same library is installed at user levelPython create package for local usePackaging a project that uses multiple python versionsWhy is permission denied on pip install except for when “--user” is included at end of command?

            Why did Thanos need his ship to help him in the battle scene?Which actor plays Thanos in the Avengers mid-credits scene?Are there economic implications portrayed in comics where the buildings and cities are ruined almost daily?Old X-Men comic where team travels to alien world with a ring-like sun that needs recharging?Why does Ego need help sleeping?Is there an objective answer to who “the strongest Avenger” is?How did Banner get unstuck?Why did Thanos get hit?How did Thanos (or anyone) know the Infinity Stones would give him this power?Did Thanos leave Eitri alive for his after-sales service?In Avengers 1, why does Thanos need Loki?