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Is it alright to substitute $0$ for $1/n$ in this limit problem?
The Next CEO of Stack OverflowCompute the following limit, possibly using a Riemann SumEvaluate the integral of a function defined by an infinite seriesThe beginning of a series in a limit using integralsAttempted proof of the first part of the Fundamental Theorem of CalculusIntegration as limit of sumInfinity when evaluating limits involving infinity. Is infinity zero, for all intents and purposes?How to evaluate the $limlimits_xto 0frac 2sin(x)-arctan(x)-xcos(x^2)x^5$, using power series?Limiting case of of integral.Radius of convergence involving $z^n^2$How to find the limit $limlimits_ntoinfty1/sqrt[n]n$ which is indeterminate on evaluation but is convergent?Find $limlimits_ntoinftye^n - e^frac1n + n$
$begingroup$
Evaluate: $limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1$
To solve this I used the following approach:
beginalign S &= limlimits_n to inftysum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-frac1n \
&= limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-colorred0 = dfrac 12int _0^1 dfrac11+x,mathrmdx \ &= ln(sqrt 2)endalign
Though the answer is correct, I am unsure about my second step in which I have replaced $1/n$ by $0$. Is that allowed? I have tried it in some other problems too and it works.
calculus limits
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Evaluate: $limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1$
To solve this I used the following approach:
beginalign S &= limlimits_n to inftysum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-frac1n \
&= limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-colorred0 = dfrac 12int _0^1 dfrac11+x,mathrmdx \ &= ln(sqrt 2)endalign
Though the answer is correct, I am unsure about my second step in which I have replaced $1/n$ by $0$. Is that allowed? I have tried it in some other problems too and it works.
calculus limits
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Just because some arbitrary manipulation leads to the correct answer in some cases, does not mean that it leads to the correct answer in other cases.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
I'm glad you ask this question, instead of assuming that what works is right. Though for the sake of your mathematical learning, next time it is better if you ask "Why should it be true?" instead of "Is it allowed?" Mathematics is not founded upon laws with penalties if they are broken. Rather, (at least some part of) mathematics is the endeavour to deduce true statements about the real world. You can write whatever symbols you want on paper, and unsound methods can be accepted by people in general, but it won't change reality.
$endgroup$
– user21820
yesterday
$begingroup$
If things are continuous you can replace $lim f(combined)g(n)$ whith $f(combined)[lim g(n)]$ but you can not replace $lim f(n)(combined)g(n)$ withe $lim f(n)(combined)(lim f(n))$. So no. This is not valid.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Evaluate: $limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1$
To solve this I used the following approach:
beginalign S &= limlimits_n to inftysum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-frac1n \
&= limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-colorred0 = dfrac 12int _0^1 dfrac11+x,mathrmdx \ &= ln(sqrt 2)endalign
Though the answer is correct, I am unsure about my second step in which I have replaced $1/n$ by $0$. Is that allowed? I have tried it in some other problems too and it works.
calculus limits
$endgroup$
Evaluate: $limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1$
To solve this I used the following approach:
beginalign S &= limlimits_n to inftysum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-frac1n \
&= limlimits_n to inftydisplaystylesum_r=1^n dfracfrac 1n2 + 2frac rn-colorred0 = dfrac 12int _0^1 dfrac11+x,mathrmdx \ &= ln(sqrt 2)endalign
Though the answer is correct, I am unsure about my second step in which I have replaced $1/n$ by $0$. Is that allowed? I have tried it in some other problems too and it works.
calculus limits
calculus limits
edited yesterday
Xander Henderson
14.9k103555
14.9k103555
asked yesterday
AbcdAbcd
3,16931338
3,16931338
3
$begingroup$
Just because some arbitrary manipulation leads to the correct answer in some cases, does not mean that it leads to the correct answer in other cases.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
I'm glad you ask this question, instead of assuming that what works is right. Though for the sake of your mathematical learning, next time it is better if you ask "Why should it be true?" instead of "Is it allowed?" Mathematics is not founded upon laws with penalties if they are broken. Rather, (at least some part of) mathematics is the endeavour to deduce true statements about the real world. You can write whatever symbols you want on paper, and unsound methods can be accepted by people in general, but it won't change reality.
$endgroup$
– user21820
yesterday
$begingroup$
If things are continuous you can replace $lim f(combined)g(n)$ whith $f(combined)[lim g(n)]$ but you can not replace $lim f(n)(combined)g(n)$ withe $lim f(n)(combined)(lim f(n))$. So no. This is not valid.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
yesterday
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Just because some arbitrary manipulation leads to the correct answer in some cases, does not mean that it leads to the correct answer in other cases.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
I'm glad you ask this question, instead of assuming that what works is right. Though for the sake of your mathematical learning, next time it is better if you ask "Why should it be true?" instead of "Is it allowed?" Mathematics is not founded upon laws with penalties if they are broken. Rather, (at least some part of) mathematics is the endeavour to deduce true statements about the real world. You can write whatever symbols you want on paper, and unsound methods can be accepted by people in general, but it won't change reality.
$endgroup$
– user21820
yesterday
$begingroup$
If things are continuous you can replace $lim f(combined)g(n)$ whith $f(combined)[lim g(n)]$ but you can not replace $lim f(n)(combined)g(n)$ withe $lim f(n)(combined)(lim f(n))$. So no. This is not valid.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
yesterday
3
3
$begingroup$
Just because some arbitrary manipulation leads to the correct answer in some cases, does not mean that it leads to the correct answer in other cases.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
yesterday
$begingroup$
Just because some arbitrary manipulation leads to the correct answer in some cases, does not mean that it leads to the correct answer in other cases.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
yesterday
5
5
$begingroup$
I'm glad you ask this question, instead of assuming that what works is right. Though for the sake of your mathematical learning, next time it is better if you ask "Why should it be true?" instead of "Is it allowed?" Mathematics is not founded upon laws with penalties if they are broken. Rather, (at least some part of) mathematics is the endeavour to deduce true statements about the real world. You can write whatever symbols you want on paper, and unsound methods can be accepted by people in general, but it won't change reality.
$endgroup$
– user21820
yesterday
$begingroup$
I'm glad you ask this question, instead of assuming that what works is right. Though for the sake of your mathematical learning, next time it is better if you ask "Why should it be true?" instead of "Is it allowed?" Mathematics is not founded upon laws with penalties if they are broken. Rather, (at least some part of) mathematics is the endeavour to deduce true statements about the real world. You can write whatever symbols you want on paper, and unsound methods can be accepted by people in general, but it won't change reality.
$endgroup$
– user21820
yesterday
$begingroup$
If things are continuous you can replace $lim f(combined)g(n)$ whith $f(combined)[lim g(n)]$ but you can not replace $lim f(n)(combined)g(n)$ withe $lim f(n)(combined)(lim f(n))$. So no. This is not valid.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
yesterday
$begingroup$
If things are continuous you can replace $lim f(combined)g(n)$ whith $f(combined)[lim g(n)]$ but you can not replace $lim f(n)(combined)g(n)$ withe $lim f(n)(combined)(lim f(n))$. So no. This is not valid.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
yesterday
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
"That" is not allowed in general.
It works here because you can squeeze the sum by two Riemann sums for the same function $frac12(1+x)$ on the same interval $[0,1]$:
$$frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracrncdot frac1n = sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1 leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-2 = frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracr-1ncdot frac1n$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, this is not allowed, because for all you know that $frac 1 n$ could have some subtle interaction with the rest of the formula which cancels out its going to zero. For example in the limit
$$lim_nto inftynfrac1n$$
we can't just replace $frac1n$ with $0$ (yielding a limit of $0$) because the presence of the factor $n$ cancels that out. How do you know there isn't something you didn't spot in your formula which produces similar behavior? Maybe the $frac rn$ or the $frac 1n$ in the numerator has a similar "cancelling" effect on the $frac 1n$ which you're trying to replace with $0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By definition of Riemann integral we have $$int_0^1f(x),dx=lim_ntoinftyfrac1nsum_r=1^nf(t_r)$$ where $t_r$ lies between $(r-1)/n$ and $r/n$. For the current question the given sum matches $f(x) =dfrac12(1+x)$ and $t_r=(2r-1)/2n$. Thus the desired limit is indeed equal to $(1/2)log 2$.
The notion of a Riemann sum is far more general than usual calculus texts will lead you to believe (most calculus texts either keep $t_r=(r-1)/n$ or $t_r=r/n$). The sum in question is a Riemann sum as explained above.
Also in mathematics one can't replace $A$ by $B$ unless $A=B$. If you see some replacements which work out fine but look mysterious then you just need to understand that some steps are missing.
The technique can be used to handle sums which are not exactly Riemann sums but differ slightly from it. See this answer for an example.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think it is better and safer to bound the limit from both sides as following:$$alpha n+2r<2n+2r-1<2n+2r$$for every $alpha<2$ and $n$ sufficiently large. Therefore$$sum_r=1^n1over 2 n+2r<sum_r=1^n1over 2n+2r-1<sum_r=1^n1over alpha n+2r$$Now fix $alpha<2$. Therefore by integrating we obtain$$1over 2ln 2letextthe desired limitle 1over 2ln2+alphaoveralpha$$Since the latter holds for every $alpha<2$, then we can write $$textthe desired limit=1over 2ln 2$$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
$begingroup$
@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
$endgroup$
– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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active
oldest
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
"That" is not allowed in general.
It works here because you can squeeze the sum by two Riemann sums for the same function $frac12(1+x)$ on the same interval $[0,1]$:
$$frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracrncdot frac1n = sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1 leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-2 = frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracr-1ncdot frac1n$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"That" is not allowed in general.
It works here because you can squeeze the sum by two Riemann sums for the same function $frac12(1+x)$ on the same interval $[0,1]$:
$$frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracrncdot frac1n = sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1 leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-2 = frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracr-1ncdot frac1n$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"That" is not allowed in general.
It works here because you can squeeze the sum by two Riemann sums for the same function $frac12(1+x)$ on the same interval $[0,1]$:
$$frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracrncdot frac1n = sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1 leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-2 = frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracr-1ncdot frac1n$$
$endgroup$
"That" is not allowed in general.
It works here because you can squeeze the sum by two Riemann sums for the same function $frac12(1+x)$ on the same interval $[0,1]$:
$$frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracrncdot frac1n = sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-1 leq sum_r=1^n dfrac12n + 2r-2 = frac12sum_r=1^n dfrac11 + fracr-1ncdot frac1n$$
edited 23 hours ago
answered yesterday
trancelocationtrancelocation
13.4k1827
13.4k1827
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, this is not allowed, because for all you know that $frac 1 n$ could have some subtle interaction with the rest of the formula which cancels out its going to zero. For example in the limit
$$lim_nto inftynfrac1n$$
we can't just replace $frac1n$ with $0$ (yielding a limit of $0$) because the presence of the factor $n$ cancels that out. How do you know there isn't something you didn't spot in your formula which produces similar behavior? Maybe the $frac rn$ or the $frac 1n$ in the numerator has a similar "cancelling" effect on the $frac 1n$ which you're trying to replace with $0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, this is not allowed, because for all you know that $frac 1 n$ could have some subtle interaction with the rest of the formula which cancels out its going to zero. For example in the limit
$$lim_nto inftynfrac1n$$
we can't just replace $frac1n$ with $0$ (yielding a limit of $0$) because the presence of the factor $n$ cancels that out. How do you know there isn't something you didn't spot in your formula which produces similar behavior? Maybe the $frac rn$ or the $frac 1n$ in the numerator has a similar "cancelling" effect on the $frac 1n$ which you're trying to replace with $0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No, this is not allowed, because for all you know that $frac 1 n$ could have some subtle interaction with the rest of the formula which cancels out its going to zero. For example in the limit
$$lim_nto inftynfrac1n$$
we can't just replace $frac1n$ with $0$ (yielding a limit of $0$) because the presence of the factor $n$ cancels that out. How do you know there isn't something you didn't spot in your formula which produces similar behavior? Maybe the $frac rn$ or the $frac 1n$ in the numerator has a similar "cancelling" effect on the $frac 1n$ which you're trying to replace with $0$.
$endgroup$
No, this is not allowed, because for all you know that $frac 1 n$ could have some subtle interaction with the rest of the formula which cancels out its going to zero. For example in the limit
$$lim_nto inftynfrac1n$$
we can't just replace $frac1n$ with $0$ (yielding a limit of $0$) because the presence of the factor $n$ cancels that out. How do you know there isn't something you didn't spot in your formula which produces similar behavior? Maybe the $frac rn$ or the $frac 1n$ in the numerator has a similar "cancelling" effect on the $frac 1n$ which you're trying to replace with $0$.
answered yesterday
Jack MJack M
18.9k33882
18.9k33882
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By definition of Riemann integral we have $$int_0^1f(x),dx=lim_ntoinftyfrac1nsum_r=1^nf(t_r)$$ where $t_r$ lies between $(r-1)/n$ and $r/n$. For the current question the given sum matches $f(x) =dfrac12(1+x)$ and $t_r=(2r-1)/2n$. Thus the desired limit is indeed equal to $(1/2)log 2$.
The notion of a Riemann sum is far more general than usual calculus texts will lead you to believe (most calculus texts either keep $t_r=(r-1)/n$ or $t_r=r/n$). The sum in question is a Riemann sum as explained above.
Also in mathematics one can't replace $A$ by $B$ unless $A=B$. If you see some replacements which work out fine but look mysterious then you just need to understand that some steps are missing.
The technique can be used to handle sums which are not exactly Riemann sums but differ slightly from it. See this answer for an example.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By definition of Riemann integral we have $$int_0^1f(x),dx=lim_ntoinftyfrac1nsum_r=1^nf(t_r)$$ where $t_r$ lies between $(r-1)/n$ and $r/n$. For the current question the given sum matches $f(x) =dfrac12(1+x)$ and $t_r=(2r-1)/2n$. Thus the desired limit is indeed equal to $(1/2)log 2$.
The notion of a Riemann sum is far more general than usual calculus texts will lead you to believe (most calculus texts either keep $t_r=(r-1)/n$ or $t_r=r/n$). The sum in question is a Riemann sum as explained above.
Also in mathematics one can't replace $A$ by $B$ unless $A=B$. If you see some replacements which work out fine but look mysterious then you just need to understand that some steps are missing.
The technique can be used to handle sums which are not exactly Riemann sums but differ slightly from it. See this answer for an example.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By definition of Riemann integral we have $$int_0^1f(x),dx=lim_ntoinftyfrac1nsum_r=1^nf(t_r)$$ where $t_r$ lies between $(r-1)/n$ and $r/n$. For the current question the given sum matches $f(x) =dfrac12(1+x)$ and $t_r=(2r-1)/2n$. Thus the desired limit is indeed equal to $(1/2)log 2$.
The notion of a Riemann sum is far more general than usual calculus texts will lead you to believe (most calculus texts either keep $t_r=(r-1)/n$ or $t_r=r/n$). The sum in question is a Riemann sum as explained above.
Also in mathematics one can't replace $A$ by $B$ unless $A=B$. If you see some replacements which work out fine but look mysterious then you just need to understand that some steps are missing.
The technique can be used to handle sums which are not exactly Riemann sums but differ slightly from it. See this answer for an example.
$endgroup$
By definition of Riemann integral we have $$int_0^1f(x),dx=lim_ntoinftyfrac1nsum_r=1^nf(t_r)$$ where $t_r$ lies between $(r-1)/n$ and $r/n$. For the current question the given sum matches $f(x) =dfrac12(1+x)$ and $t_r=(2r-1)/2n$. Thus the desired limit is indeed equal to $(1/2)log 2$.
The notion of a Riemann sum is far more general than usual calculus texts will lead you to believe (most calculus texts either keep $t_r=(r-1)/n$ or $t_r=r/n$). The sum in question is a Riemann sum as explained above.
Also in mathematics one can't replace $A$ by $B$ unless $A=B$. If you see some replacements which work out fine but look mysterious then you just need to understand that some steps are missing.
The technique can be used to handle sums which are not exactly Riemann sums but differ slightly from it. See this answer for an example.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Paramanand SinghParamanand Singh
51.2k557168
51.2k557168
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think it is better and safer to bound the limit from both sides as following:$$alpha n+2r<2n+2r-1<2n+2r$$for every $alpha<2$ and $n$ sufficiently large. Therefore$$sum_r=1^n1over 2 n+2r<sum_r=1^n1over 2n+2r-1<sum_r=1^n1over alpha n+2r$$Now fix $alpha<2$. Therefore by integrating we obtain$$1over 2ln 2letextthe desired limitle 1over 2ln2+alphaoveralpha$$Since the latter holds for every $alpha<2$, then we can write $$textthe desired limit=1over 2ln 2$$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
$begingroup$
@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
$endgroup$
– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think it is better and safer to bound the limit from both sides as following:$$alpha n+2r<2n+2r-1<2n+2r$$for every $alpha<2$ and $n$ sufficiently large. Therefore$$sum_r=1^n1over 2 n+2r<sum_r=1^n1over 2n+2r-1<sum_r=1^n1over alpha n+2r$$Now fix $alpha<2$. Therefore by integrating we obtain$$1over 2ln 2letextthe desired limitle 1over 2ln2+alphaoveralpha$$Since the latter holds for every $alpha<2$, then we can write $$textthe desired limit=1over 2ln 2$$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
$begingroup$
@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
$endgroup$
– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think it is better and safer to bound the limit from both sides as following:$$alpha n+2r<2n+2r-1<2n+2r$$for every $alpha<2$ and $n$ sufficiently large. Therefore$$sum_r=1^n1over 2 n+2r<sum_r=1^n1over 2n+2r-1<sum_r=1^n1over alpha n+2r$$Now fix $alpha<2$. Therefore by integrating we obtain$$1over 2ln 2letextthe desired limitle 1over 2ln2+alphaoveralpha$$Since the latter holds for every $alpha<2$, then we can write $$textthe desired limit=1over 2ln 2$$
$endgroup$
I think it is better and safer to bound the limit from both sides as following:$$alpha n+2r<2n+2r-1<2n+2r$$for every $alpha<2$ and $n$ sufficiently large. Therefore$$sum_r=1^n1over 2 n+2r<sum_r=1^n1over 2n+2r-1<sum_r=1^n1over alpha n+2r$$Now fix $alpha<2$. Therefore by integrating we obtain$$1over 2ln 2letextthe desired limitle 1over 2ln2+alphaoveralpha$$Since the latter holds for every $alpha<2$, then we can write $$textthe desired limit=1over 2ln 2$$
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Mostafa AyazMostafa Ayaz
18.3k31040
18.3k31040
1
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As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
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– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
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@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
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– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
add a comment |
1
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As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
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– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
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@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
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– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
1
1
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As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
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– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
$begingroup$
As this answer explains, no, that is not correct.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
yesterday
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@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
$endgroup$
– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
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@JoséCarlosSantos thank you. I got that point.
$endgroup$
– Mostafa Ayaz
yesterday
add a comment |
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Just because some arbitrary manipulation leads to the correct answer in some cases, does not mean that it leads to the correct answer in other cases.
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– Servaes
yesterday
5
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I'm glad you ask this question, instead of assuming that what works is right. Though for the sake of your mathematical learning, next time it is better if you ask "Why should it be true?" instead of "Is it allowed?" Mathematics is not founded upon laws with penalties if they are broken. Rather, (at least some part of) mathematics is the endeavour to deduce true statements about the real world. You can write whatever symbols you want on paper, and unsound methods can be accepted by people in general, but it won't change reality.
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– user21820
yesterday
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If things are continuous you can replace $lim f(combined)g(n)$ whith $f(combined)[lim g(n)]$ but you can not replace $lim f(n)(combined)g(n)$ withe $lim f(n)(combined)(lim f(n))$. So no. This is not valid.
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– fleablood
yesterday