No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell? The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHalf cell method of voltage calculation in an electrochemical cellFinding concentrations in a voltaic cellWhy does the anode solution contain Sn2+ in a Sn-Cu voltaic cell?Can the thermodynamic predictions of redox reactions based on E and dG contradict each other?Explain the difference in stability of permanganate ions in acidic/ alkaline solutions?At what voltage does the electrodeposition of the metal start?Positive electrode of an electrochemical cell?Do I use the Nernst equation when the concentrations of electrolyte in both half cells are equal?Does silver oxidise in a pH 1 solution?How can we directly add half cell potentials to measure the EMF of a galvanic cell?

Is it OK to decorate a log book cover?

Is there an equivalent of cd - for cp or mv

Is it professional to write unrelated content in an almost-empty email?

What difference does it make using sed with/without whitespaces?

Can Sneak Attack be used when hitting with an improvised weapon?

Help understanding this unsettling image of Titan, Epimetheus, and Saturn's rings?

Film where the government was corrupt with aliens, people sent to kill aliens are given rigged visors not showing the right aliens

Why is the US ranked as #45 in Press Freedom ratings, despite its extremely permissive free speech laws?

Why don't programming languages automatically manage the synchronous/asynchronous problem?

how one can write a nice vector parser, something that does pgfvecparseA=B-C; D=E x F;

Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?

Man transported from Alternate World into ours by a Neutrino Detector

What steps are necessary to read a Modern SSD in Medieval Europe?

Which Pokemon have a special animation when running with them out of their pokeball?

Can this note be analyzed as a non-chord tone?

Small nick on power cord from an electric alarm clock, and copper wiring exposed but intact

What's the commands of Cisco query bgp neighbor table, bgp table and router table?

Is a distribution that is normal, but highly skewed, considered Gaussian?

What day is it again?

What does "shotgun unity" refer to here in this sentence?

What flight has the highest ratio of timezone difference to flight time?

Is there such a thing as a proper verb, like a proper noun?

"Eavesdropping" vs "Listen in on"

In the "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" video game, what potion is used to sabotage Umbridge's speakers?



No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell?



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHalf cell method of voltage calculation in an electrochemical cellFinding concentrations in a voltaic cellWhy does the anode solution contain Sn2+ in a Sn-Cu voltaic cell?Can the thermodynamic predictions of redox reactions based on E and dG contradict each other?Explain the difference in stability of permanganate ions in acidic/ alkaline solutions?At what voltage does the electrodeposition of the metal start?Positive electrode of an electrochemical cell?Do I use the Nernst equation when the concentrations of electrolyte in both half cells are equal?Does silver oxidise in a pH 1 solution?How can we directly add half cell potentials to measure the EMF of a galvanic cell?










3












$begingroup$


I learnt that for a voltaic cell, the value for the $E_textcell^circ$ when the reaction is spontaneous is given by



$$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ, labeleqn:1tag1$$



so that the difference in the right gives us a positive value for $E_textcell^circ$.



But suppose we are given two half-reactions:



$$
beginalign
ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
endalign
$$



When finding the overall spontaneous reaction, we must flip the second reaction, multiply it by $2$, and then add it with the first to get our desired equation.




But when determining the $E_textcell^circ$, why don't we negate the minus sign of the second half-reaction and make positive, before we put it in $eqrefeqn:1$ to figure out the $E_textcell^circ$? Shouldn't we do that because we reversed the second equation?



My book tells me to keep the $E_texthalf-cells^circ$ as they are written in the tables and simply put them in $eqrefeqn:1$. But why?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    3












    $begingroup$


    I learnt that for a voltaic cell, the value for the $E_textcell^circ$ when the reaction is spontaneous is given by



    $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ, labeleqn:1tag1$$



    so that the difference in the right gives us a positive value for $E_textcell^circ$.



    But suppose we are given two half-reactions:



    $$
    beginalign
    ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
    ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
    endalign
    $$



    When finding the overall spontaneous reaction, we must flip the second reaction, multiply it by $2$, and then add it with the first to get our desired equation.




    But when determining the $E_textcell^circ$, why don't we negate the minus sign of the second half-reaction and make positive, before we put it in $eqrefeqn:1$ to figure out the $E_textcell^circ$? Shouldn't we do that because we reversed the second equation?



    My book tells me to keep the $E_texthalf-cells^circ$ as they are written in the tables and simply put them in $eqrefeqn:1$. But why?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$


      I learnt that for a voltaic cell, the value for the $E_textcell^circ$ when the reaction is spontaneous is given by



      $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ, labeleqn:1tag1$$



      so that the difference in the right gives us a positive value for $E_textcell^circ$.



      But suppose we are given two half-reactions:



      $$
      beginalign
      ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
      ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
      endalign
      $$



      When finding the overall spontaneous reaction, we must flip the second reaction, multiply it by $2$, and then add it with the first to get our desired equation.




      But when determining the $E_textcell^circ$, why don't we negate the minus sign of the second half-reaction and make positive, before we put it in $eqrefeqn:1$ to figure out the $E_textcell^circ$? Shouldn't we do that because we reversed the second equation?



      My book tells me to keep the $E_texthalf-cells^circ$ as they are written in the tables and simply put them in $eqrefeqn:1$. But why?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I learnt that for a voltaic cell, the value for the $E_textcell^circ$ when the reaction is spontaneous is given by



      $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ, labeleqn:1tag1$$



      so that the difference in the right gives us a positive value for $E_textcell^circ$.



      But suppose we are given two half-reactions:



      $$
      beginalign
      ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
      ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
      endalign
      $$



      When finding the overall spontaneous reaction, we must flip the second reaction, multiply it by $2$, and then add it with the first to get our desired equation.




      But when determining the $E_textcell^circ$, why don't we negate the minus sign of the second half-reaction and make positive, before we put it in $eqrefeqn:1$ to figure out the $E_textcell^circ$? Shouldn't we do that because we reversed the second equation?



      My book tells me to keep the $E_texthalf-cells^circ$ as they are written in the tables and simply put them in $eqrefeqn:1$. But why?







      physical-chemistry electrochemistry redox






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited yesterday







      Apekshik Panigrahi

















      asked yesterday









      Apekshik PanigrahiApekshik Panigrahi

      1455




      1455




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          Take a look at the two half reactions:



          $$
          beginalign
          ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
          ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
          endalign
          $$



          If there is an electron for grabs (like the ones in the wire of a voltaic cell), $ceAg+(aq)$ and $ceSn^2+(aq)$ are competing for it. Whichever half reaction has the higher (more positive) reduction potential will win. If the reduction potentials are equal, it is a draw and the reaction is at equilibrium. So we are taking the difference of the reduction potentials to see in which direction the reaction will go.




          No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell?




          Take a look at the equation you are using to figure out the emf. You are already treating the oxidation half reaction differently than the reduction half reaction because there is a negative sign in front of the anode reduction potential.



          $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ$$



          If you switch the anode and cathode half reaction, you would get the opposite sign for the emf. (Not that the reaction would go in that direction.)






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            2












            $begingroup$


            My book tells me to keep the E∘half-cells as they are written in the
            tables and simply put them in




            Your book is then one of the few books which teaches electrochemistry properly. The sign of the electrode reduction potential is invariant. If reflects the sign of the electrostatic charge of the electrode with respect to hydrogen electrode. I don;t know if you like history or not, long time ago in the 1950s-60s showing the electrostatic sign of a cell by means of a specially designed electroscope was a standard experiment in physics.



            Imagine if I say H2O (l) --> H2O (g) at 100 oC



            Does this mean reversing the reaction



            H2O(g) --> H2O (l) will be at -100 oC?



            You can see logical fallacy in reversing the sign of electrode potentials.



            Yes, there was a lot of confusion in electrode signs for more than 100 years but now it has been sorted out.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$




















              1












              $begingroup$

              The Nernst equation and electrochemical potentials relate to redox systems, not to reagents and products. The forward and reversed reactions are the same redox system.



              Imagine you would want to make a galvanical cell with the same electrodes. Flipping the sign would grant you a Nobel price for inventing a perpetuum mobile.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$













                Your Answer





                StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
                return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
                StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
                StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
                );
                );
                , "mathjax-editing");

                StackExchange.ready(function()
                var channelOptions =
                tags: "".split(" "),
                id: "431"
                ;
                initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

                StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
                // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
                if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
                StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
                createEditor();
                );

                else
                createEditor();

                );

                function createEditor()
                StackExchange.prepareEditor(
                heartbeatType: 'answer',
                autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
                convertImagesToLinks: false,
                noModals: true,
                showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
                reputationToPostImages: null,
                bindNavPrevention: true,
                postfix: "",
                imageUploader:
                brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
                contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
                allowUrls: true
                ,
                onDemand: true,
                discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
                ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
                );



                );













                draft saved

                draft discarded


















                StackExchange.ready(
                function ()
                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchemistry.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f111794%2fno-sign-flipping-while-figuring-out-the-emf-of-voltaic-cell%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                );

                Post as a guest















                Required, but never shown

























                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes








                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                2












                $begingroup$

                Take a look at the two half reactions:



                $$
                beginalign
                ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
                ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
                endalign
                $$



                If there is an electron for grabs (like the ones in the wire of a voltaic cell), $ceAg+(aq)$ and $ceSn^2+(aq)$ are competing for it. Whichever half reaction has the higher (more positive) reduction potential will win. If the reduction potentials are equal, it is a draw and the reaction is at equilibrium. So we are taking the difference of the reduction potentials to see in which direction the reaction will go.




                No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell?




                Take a look at the equation you are using to figure out the emf. You are already treating the oxidation half reaction differently than the reduction half reaction because there is a negative sign in front of the anode reduction potential.



                $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ$$



                If you switch the anode and cathode half reaction, you would get the opposite sign for the emf. (Not that the reaction would go in that direction.)






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$

















                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  Take a look at the two half reactions:



                  $$
                  beginalign
                  ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
                  ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
                  endalign
                  $$



                  If there is an electron for grabs (like the ones in the wire of a voltaic cell), $ceAg+(aq)$ and $ceSn^2+(aq)$ are competing for it. Whichever half reaction has the higher (more positive) reduction potential will win. If the reduction potentials are equal, it is a draw and the reaction is at equilibrium. So we are taking the difference of the reduction potentials to see in which direction the reaction will go.




                  No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell?




                  Take a look at the equation you are using to figure out the emf. You are already treating the oxidation half reaction differently than the reduction half reaction because there is a negative sign in front of the anode reduction potential.



                  $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ$$



                  If you switch the anode and cathode half reaction, you would get the opposite sign for the emf. (Not that the reaction would go in that direction.)






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$















                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    Take a look at the two half reactions:



                    $$
                    beginalign
                    ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
                    ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
                    endalign
                    $$



                    If there is an electron for grabs (like the ones in the wire of a voltaic cell), $ceAg+(aq)$ and $ceSn^2+(aq)$ are competing for it. Whichever half reaction has the higher (more positive) reduction potential will win. If the reduction potentials are equal, it is a draw and the reaction is at equilibrium. So we are taking the difference of the reduction potentials to see in which direction the reaction will go.




                    No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell?




                    Take a look at the equation you are using to figure out the emf. You are already treating the oxidation half reaction differently than the reduction half reaction because there is a negative sign in front of the anode reduction potential.



                    $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ$$



                    If you switch the anode and cathode half reaction, you would get the opposite sign for the emf. (Not that the reaction would go in that direction.)






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    Take a look at the two half reactions:



                    $$
                    beginalign
                    ceAg+(aq) + e- &→ Ag(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu0.80 V \
                    ceSn^2+(aq) + 2 e- &→ Sn(s) &qquad E^circ &= pu-0.14 V
                    endalign
                    $$



                    If there is an electron for grabs (like the ones in the wire of a voltaic cell), $ceAg+(aq)$ and $ceSn^2+(aq)$ are competing for it. Whichever half reaction has the higher (more positive) reduction potential will win. If the reduction potentials are equal, it is a draw and the reaction is at equilibrium. So we are taking the difference of the reduction potentials to see in which direction the reaction will go.




                    No sign flipping while figuring out the emf of voltaic cell?




                    Take a look at the equation you are using to figure out the emf. You are already treating the oxidation half reaction differently than the reduction half reaction because there is a negative sign in front of the anode reduction potential.



                    $$E_textcell^circ = E_textcathode^circ - E_textanode^circ$$



                    If you switch the anode and cathode half reaction, you would get the opposite sign for the emf. (Not that the reaction would go in that direction.)







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered yesterday









                    Karsten TheisKarsten Theis

                    3,657541




                    3,657541





















                        2












                        $begingroup$


                        My book tells me to keep the E∘half-cells as they are written in the
                        tables and simply put them in




                        Your book is then one of the few books which teaches electrochemistry properly. The sign of the electrode reduction potential is invariant. If reflects the sign of the electrostatic charge of the electrode with respect to hydrogen electrode. I don;t know if you like history or not, long time ago in the 1950s-60s showing the electrostatic sign of a cell by means of a specially designed electroscope was a standard experiment in physics.



                        Imagine if I say H2O (l) --> H2O (g) at 100 oC



                        Does this mean reversing the reaction



                        H2O(g) --> H2O (l) will be at -100 oC?



                        You can see logical fallacy in reversing the sign of electrode potentials.



                        Yes, there was a lot of confusion in electrode signs for more than 100 years but now it has been sorted out.






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$

















                          2












                          $begingroup$


                          My book tells me to keep the E∘half-cells as they are written in the
                          tables and simply put them in




                          Your book is then one of the few books which teaches electrochemistry properly. The sign of the electrode reduction potential is invariant. If reflects the sign of the electrostatic charge of the electrode with respect to hydrogen electrode. I don;t know if you like history or not, long time ago in the 1950s-60s showing the electrostatic sign of a cell by means of a specially designed electroscope was a standard experiment in physics.



                          Imagine if I say H2O (l) --> H2O (g) at 100 oC



                          Does this mean reversing the reaction



                          H2O(g) --> H2O (l) will be at -100 oC?



                          You can see logical fallacy in reversing the sign of electrode potentials.



                          Yes, there was a lot of confusion in electrode signs for more than 100 years but now it has been sorted out.






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$















                            2












                            2








                            2





                            $begingroup$


                            My book tells me to keep the E∘half-cells as they are written in the
                            tables and simply put them in




                            Your book is then one of the few books which teaches electrochemistry properly. The sign of the electrode reduction potential is invariant. If reflects the sign of the electrostatic charge of the electrode with respect to hydrogen electrode. I don;t know if you like history or not, long time ago in the 1950s-60s showing the electrostatic sign of a cell by means of a specially designed electroscope was a standard experiment in physics.



                            Imagine if I say H2O (l) --> H2O (g) at 100 oC



                            Does this mean reversing the reaction



                            H2O(g) --> H2O (l) will be at -100 oC?



                            You can see logical fallacy in reversing the sign of electrode potentials.



                            Yes, there was a lot of confusion in electrode signs for more than 100 years but now it has been sorted out.






                            share|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$




                            My book tells me to keep the E∘half-cells as they are written in the
                            tables and simply put them in




                            Your book is then one of the few books which teaches electrochemistry properly. The sign of the electrode reduction potential is invariant. If reflects the sign of the electrostatic charge of the electrode with respect to hydrogen electrode. I don;t know if you like history or not, long time ago in the 1950s-60s showing the electrostatic sign of a cell by means of a specially designed electroscope was a standard experiment in physics.



                            Imagine if I say H2O (l) --> H2O (g) at 100 oC



                            Does this mean reversing the reaction



                            H2O(g) --> H2O (l) will be at -100 oC?



                            You can see logical fallacy in reversing the sign of electrode potentials.



                            Yes, there was a lot of confusion in electrode signs for more than 100 years but now it has been sorted out.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered yesterday









                            M. FarooqM. Farooq

                            1,103110




                            1,103110





















                                1












                                $begingroup$

                                The Nernst equation and electrochemical potentials relate to redox systems, not to reagents and products. The forward and reversed reactions are the same redox system.



                                Imagine you would want to make a galvanical cell with the same electrodes. Flipping the sign would grant you a Nobel price for inventing a perpetuum mobile.






                                share|improve this answer









                                $endgroup$

















                                  1












                                  $begingroup$

                                  The Nernst equation and electrochemical potentials relate to redox systems, not to reagents and products. The forward and reversed reactions are the same redox system.



                                  Imagine you would want to make a galvanical cell with the same electrodes. Flipping the sign would grant you a Nobel price for inventing a perpetuum mobile.






                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$















                                    1












                                    1








                                    1





                                    $begingroup$

                                    The Nernst equation and electrochemical potentials relate to redox systems, not to reagents and products. The forward and reversed reactions are the same redox system.



                                    Imagine you would want to make a galvanical cell with the same electrodes. Flipping the sign would grant you a Nobel price for inventing a perpetuum mobile.






                                    share|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$



                                    The Nernst equation and electrochemical potentials relate to redox systems, not to reagents and products. The forward and reversed reactions are the same redox system.



                                    Imagine you would want to make a galvanical cell with the same electrodes. Flipping the sign would grant you a Nobel price for inventing a perpetuum mobile.







                                    share|improve this answer












                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer










                                    answered yesterday









                                    PoutnikPoutnik

                                    57827




                                    57827



























                                        draft saved

                                        draft discarded
















































                                        Thanks for contributing an answer to Chemistry Stack Exchange!


                                        • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                        But avoid


                                        • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                        • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                        Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                        To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                        draft saved


                                        draft discarded














                                        StackExchange.ready(
                                        function ()
                                        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchemistry.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f111794%2fno-sign-flipping-while-figuring-out-the-emf-of-voltaic-cell%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                        );

                                        Post as a guest















                                        Required, but never shown





















































                                        Required, but never shown














                                        Required, but never shown












                                        Required, but never shown







                                        Required, but never shown

































                                        Required, but never shown














                                        Required, but never shown












                                        Required, but never shown







                                        Required, but never shown







                                        Popular posts from this blog

                                        Wikipedia:Vital articles Мазмуну Biography - Өмүр баян Philosophy and psychology - Философия жана психология Religion - Дин Social sciences - Коомдук илимдер Language and literature - Тил жана адабият Science - Илим Technology - Технология Arts and recreation - Искусство жана эс алуу History and geography - Тарых жана география Навигация менюсу

                                        Bruxelas-Capital Índice Historia | Composición | Situación lingüística | Clima | Cidades irmandadas | Notas | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegacióneO uso das linguas en Bruxelas e a situación do neerlandés"Rexión de Bruxelas Capital"o orixinalSitio da rexiónPáxina de Bruselas no sitio da Oficina de Promoción Turística de Valonia e BruxelasMapa Interactivo da Rexión de Bruxelas-CapitaleeWorldCat332144929079854441105155190212ID28008674080552-90000 0001 0666 3698n94104302ID540940339365017018237

                                        What should I write in an apology letter, since I have decided not to join a company after accepting an offer letterShould I keep looking after accepting a job offer?What should I do when I've been verbally told I would get an offer letter, but still haven't gotten one after 4 weeks?Do I accept an offer from a company that I am not likely to join?New job hasn't confirmed starting date and I want to give current employer as much notice as possibleHow should I address my manager in my resignation letter?HR delayed background verification, now jobless as resignedNo email communication after accepting a formal written offer. How should I phrase the call?What should I do if after receiving a verbal offer letter I am informed that my written job offer is put on hold due to some internal issues?Should I inform the current employer that I am about to resign within 1-2 weeks since I have signed the offer letter and waiting for visa?What company will do, if I send their offer letter to another company