Limit of an integral vs limit of the integrandanalytic continuation of an integral involving the mittag-leffler functionLimit of a double integralA particular contour integralRelation between the eigenvalue density and the resolvent?A slight generalization of Mehta's integral.Symmetry of function defined by integralTopological properties of complex valued Riemann sum limit curve and a particular integral inequalityIntegral involving Laguerre, Gaussian and modified Bessel functionIntegral of exponential of quadratics + exponentialsConvergence of integral formula for Fourier inversion (and Hilbert transform) for integrable piecewise-smooth functions

Limit of an integral vs limit of the integrand


analytic continuation of an integral involving the mittag-leffler functionLimit of a double integralA particular contour integralRelation between the eigenvalue density and the resolvent?A slight generalization of Mehta's integral.Symmetry of function defined by integralTopological properties of complex valued Riemann sum limit curve and a particular integral inequalityIntegral involving Laguerre, Gaussian and modified Bessel functionIntegral of exponential of quadratics + exponentialsConvergence of integral formula for Fourier inversion (and Hilbert transform) for integrable piecewise-smooth functions













4












$begingroup$


I have a simple Fourier transform problem, originating from mathematical physics (system of linear PDEs), which reduces to taking the integral
$$
I(alpha)equivint_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2), dk
$$

where $alpha$ and $beta$ are some free real-valued parameters. I need to compute $I(0)$. It turns out that if I simply set $alpha=0$ in the integral above, I get an absolutely different answer than if I first compute the integral and set $alphato 0$ in the final expression.



My question is as follows: why do these two procedures lead to different answers? From the physical viewpoint this means that a massless field behaves in a totally different way than a massive with infinitesimal mass, which seems unreasonable.



My attempt is as follows.



I lift the pole at $k=0$ to the upper half-plane:
$$
I_varepsilon(alpha) equiv int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha), dk equiv int_-infty^infty cfracg(k)h(k), dk
$$

where
$$
h(k) = (k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha)=k^3-ivarepsilon k^2+a^2k +i varepsilon a^2,
$$

$$
h'(k)=3k^2-2ikvarepsilon+alpha^2
$$

I take the integral making use of the Jordan's lemma and Cauchy theorem: I choose a contour in the upper half-plane $mathbb H$, so that the integral reduces to the sum of residues at $k=ivarepsilon$ and $k=ialpha$:
$$
I_1(alpha)=2pi i lim_varepsilon to 0left[cfracg(ivarepsilon)h'(ivarepsilon)+cfracg(ialpha)h'(ialpha)right]
$$

$$
=2pi ilim_varepsilonto 0left[ cfracalpha^2 + beta (ivarepsilon )^23(ivarepsilon )^2-2i(ivarepsilon )varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-varepsilon r+
cfracalpha^2 + beta (ialpha)^23(ialpha)^2-2i(ialpha)varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-alpha r right]
$$

$$
=2pi i left[ 1+
cfrac1 - beta-3+1 right]=2pi i cfrac1+beta2=pi i(1+beta).
$$

Thus, $I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$. Clearly then, $lim_alphato0I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$.



However, if I consider
$$
I_2equiv I(alpha=0)=
int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak, dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 0int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak-ivarepsilon , dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 02pi i beta e^-varepsilon r = 2pi i beta.
$$

Hence, $I_2neq lim_alphato0I_1$!!! Please, give a hint why this sort of thing happens. I clearly understand that in my reasoning there is a flaw -- but it escapes me.



Thank you for any help!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The integral under consideration diverges at the origin because of $k^-1$ in the denominator. Do you mean its principal value?
    $endgroup$
    – user64494
    May 11 at 10:07















4












$begingroup$


I have a simple Fourier transform problem, originating from mathematical physics (system of linear PDEs), which reduces to taking the integral
$$
I(alpha)equivint_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2), dk
$$

where $alpha$ and $beta$ are some free real-valued parameters. I need to compute $I(0)$. It turns out that if I simply set $alpha=0$ in the integral above, I get an absolutely different answer than if I first compute the integral and set $alphato 0$ in the final expression.



My question is as follows: why do these two procedures lead to different answers? From the physical viewpoint this means that a massless field behaves in a totally different way than a massive with infinitesimal mass, which seems unreasonable.



My attempt is as follows.



I lift the pole at $k=0$ to the upper half-plane:
$$
I_varepsilon(alpha) equiv int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha), dk equiv int_-infty^infty cfracg(k)h(k), dk
$$

where
$$
h(k) = (k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha)=k^3-ivarepsilon k^2+a^2k +i varepsilon a^2,
$$

$$
h'(k)=3k^2-2ikvarepsilon+alpha^2
$$

I take the integral making use of the Jordan's lemma and Cauchy theorem: I choose a contour in the upper half-plane $mathbb H$, so that the integral reduces to the sum of residues at $k=ivarepsilon$ and $k=ialpha$:
$$
I_1(alpha)=2pi i lim_varepsilon to 0left[cfracg(ivarepsilon)h'(ivarepsilon)+cfracg(ialpha)h'(ialpha)right]
$$

$$
=2pi ilim_varepsilonto 0left[ cfracalpha^2 + beta (ivarepsilon )^23(ivarepsilon )^2-2i(ivarepsilon )varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-varepsilon r+
cfracalpha^2 + beta (ialpha)^23(ialpha)^2-2i(ialpha)varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-alpha r right]
$$

$$
=2pi i left[ 1+
cfrac1 - beta-3+1 right]=2pi i cfrac1+beta2=pi i(1+beta).
$$

Thus, $I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$. Clearly then, $lim_alphato0I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$.



However, if I consider
$$
I_2equiv I(alpha=0)=
int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak, dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 0int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak-ivarepsilon , dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 02pi i beta e^-varepsilon r = 2pi i beta.
$$

Hence, $I_2neq lim_alphato0I_1$!!! Please, give a hint why this sort of thing happens. I clearly understand that in my reasoning there is a flaw -- but it escapes me.



Thank you for any help!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The integral under consideration diverges at the origin because of $k^-1$ in the denominator. Do you mean its principal value?
    $endgroup$
    – user64494
    May 11 at 10:07













4












4








4


2



$begingroup$


I have a simple Fourier transform problem, originating from mathematical physics (system of linear PDEs), which reduces to taking the integral
$$
I(alpha)equivint_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2), dk
$$

where $alpha$ and $beta$ are some free real-valued parameters. I need to compute $I(0)$. It turns out that if I simply set $alpha=0$ in the integral above, I get an absolutely different answer than if I first compute the integral and set $alphato 0$ in the final expression.



My question is as follows: why do these two procedures lead to different answers? From the physical viewpoint this means that a massless field behaves in a totally different way than a massive with infinitesimal mass, which seems unreasonable.



My attempt is as follows.



I lift the pole at $k=0$ to the upper half-plane:
$$
I_varepsilon(alpha) equiv int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha), dk equiv int_-infty^infty cfracg(k)h(k), dk
$$

where
$$
h(k) = (k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha)=k^3-ivarepsilon k^2+a^2k +i varepsilon a^2,
$$

$$
h'(k)=3k^2-2ikvarepsilon+alpha^2
$$

I take the integral making use of the Jordan's lemma and Cauchy theorem: I choose a contour in the upper half-plane $mathbb H$, so that the integral reduces to the sum of residues at $k=ivarepsilon$ and $k=ialpha$:
$$
I_1(alpha)=2pi i lim_varepsilon to 0left[cfracg(ivarepsilon)h'(ivarepsilon)+cfracg(ialpha)h'(ialpha)right]
$$

$$
=2pi ilim_varepsilonto 0left[ cfracalpha^2 + beta (ivarepsilon )^23(ivarepsilon )^2-2i(ivarepsilon )varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-varepsilon r+
cfracalpha^2 + beta (ialpha)^23(ialpha)^2-2i(ialpha)varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-alpha r right]
$$

$$
=2pi i left[ 1+
cfrac1 - beta-3+1 right]=2pi i cfrac1+beta2=pi i(1+beta).
$$

Thus, $I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$. Clearly then, $lim_alphato0I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$.



However, if I consider
$$
I_2equiv I(alpha=0)=
int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak, dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 0int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak-ivarepsilon , dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 02pi i beta e^-varepsilon r = 2pi i beta.
$$

Hence, $I_2neq lim_alphato0I_1$!!! Please, give a hint why this sort of thing happens. I clearly understand that in my reasoning there is a flaw -- but it escapes me.



Thank you for any help!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have a simple Fourier transform problem, originating from mathematical physics (system of linear PDEs), which reduces to taking the integral
$$
I(alpha)equivint_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2), dk
$$

where $alpha$ and $beta$ are some free real-valued parameters. I need to compute $I(0)$. It turns out that if I simply set $alpha=0$ in the integral above, I get an absolutely different answer than if I first compute the integral and set $alphato 0$ in the final expression.



My question is as follows: why do these two procedures lead to different answers? From the physical viewpoint this means that a massless field behaves in a totally different way than a massive with infinitesimal mass, which seems unreasonable.



My attempt is as follows.



I lift the pole at $k=0$ to the upper half-plane:
$$
I_varepsilon(alpha) equiv int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha), dk equiv int_-infty^infty cfracg(k)h(k), dk
$$

where
$$
h(k) = (k-ivarepsilon)(k+ialpha)(k-ialpha)=k^3-ivarepsilon k^2+a^2k +i varepsilon a^2,
$$

$$
h'(k)=3k^2-2ikvarepsilon+alpha^2
$$

I take the integral making use of the Jordan's lemma and Cauchy theorem: I choose a contour in the upper half-plane $mathbb H$, so that the integral reduces to the sum of residues at $k=ivarepsilon$ and $k=ialpha$:
$$
I_1(alpha)=2pi i lim_varepsilon to 0left[cfracg(ivarepsilon)h'(ivarepsilon)+cfracg(ialpha)h'(ialpha)right]
$$

$$
=2pi ilim_varepsilonto 0left[ cfracalpha^2 + beta (ivarepsilon )^23(ivarepsilon )^2-2i(ivarepsilon )varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-varepsilon r+
cfracalpha^2 + beta (ialpha)^23(ialpha)^2-2i(ialpha)varepsilon +alpha^2,e^-alpha r right]
$$

$$
=2pi i left[ 1+
cfrac1 - beta-3+1 right]=2pi i cfrac1+beta2=pi i(1+beta).
$$

Thus, $I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$. Clearly then, $lim_alphato0I_1(alpha) = pi i(1+beta)$.



However, if I consider
$$
I_2equiv I(alpha=0)=
int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak, dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 0int_-infty^infty e^ikr cfracbetak-ivarepsilon , dk = lim_varepsilon rightarrow 02pi i beta e^-varepsilon r = 2pi i beta.
$$

Hence, $I_2neq lim_alphato0I_1$!!! Please, give a hint why this sort of thing happens. I clearly understand that in my reasoning there is a flaw -- but it escapes me.



Thank you for any help!







cv.complex-variables mp.mathematical-physics fourier-analysis integration fourier-transform






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited May 11 at 10:05









user64494

1,946717




1,946717










asked May 10 at 20:11









jonathan wolfjonathan wolf

444




444







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The integral under consideration diverges at the origin because of $k^-1$ in the denominator. Do you mean its principal value?
    $endgroup$
    – user64494
    May 11 at 10:07












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The integral under consideration diverges at the origin because of $k^-1$ in the denominator. Do you mean its principal value?
    $endgroup$
    – user64494
    May 11 at 10:07







1




1




$begingroup$
The integral under consideration diverges at the origin because of $k^-1$ in the denominator. Do you mean its principal value?
$endgroup$
– user64494
May 11 at 10:07




$begingroup$
The integral under consideration diverges at the origin because of $k^-1$ in the denominator. Do you mean its principal value?
$endgroup$
– user64494
May 11 at 10:07










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















7












$begingroup$

Care should be taken because of the pole at $k=0$, let me first take the principal value of the integral. I note that $I(alpha,-r)=barI(alpha,r)$ (complex conjugate), for convenience I will restrict myself to $r>0$.



The principal value integral evaluates to
$$I(alpha,r)=int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2)=ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
So for $alpha=0$ the result is $I(0,r)=ipibeta$. There is no discontinuity at $alpha=0$, but there is a discontinuous derivative. The same result would have been obtained if we would have set $alpha=0$ before carrying out the integral, because the principal value integral $int dk e^ikrk^-1=ipi$ for $r>0$.



Alternatively, you could shift the pole off the real axis, still taking $r>0$ the answer then becomes
$$I(alpha,r)=lim_epsilondownarrow 0int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-iepsilon)(k^2+alpha^2)=2ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
So now $I(0,r)=ipi(beta+1)$, still continuous and with a discontinuous derivative.



We have recoved the result $I_1$, where the limit $epsilondownarrow 0$ is taken before the limit $alpharightarrow 0$. These two limits do not commute, which is why the result $I_2$ in the OP differs from $I_1$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – jonathan wolf
    May 10 at 21:39







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    May 10 at 22:46










  • $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
    $endgroup$
    – vidyarthi
    May 14 at 12:03


















1












$begingroup$

It is not unreasonable that a massless field behaves in a way that is totally different from a massive one with arbitrarily small mass. Already at an elementary level, you can always perform a Lorentz transformation to the rest frame of a massive excitation; there is no such transformation for a massless one.



Whenever you encounter a mathematical ambiguity in a physics problem, it means that you have not taken into account all the necessary physics information. Physics has to tell you which order of limits is the relevant one. The $epsilon $ prescriptions you are using usually serve to implement causality in the propagators you are evaluating - that may yield a clue. In mathematical terms: You are solving a PDE - what boundary conditions are you trying to satisfy?



Without knowing the full details of what you're calculating, one possibility is that you are considering the propagation of an actual massive particle, regardless of how small the mass is. In that case, $epsilon $ has to be kept much smaller than $alpha $, i.e., the order of limits is opposite to the case of the massless field. Another possibility is that you are treating the propagation of a massless particle, and merely introducing a mass as an infrared regulator at an intermediate stage. That is a rather subtle thing to do! One would then require that final physical results are not altered; e.g., that the additional polarization state induced for a photon is not counted in, say, a partition function.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "504"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f331237%2flimit-of-an-integral-vs-limit-of-the-integrand%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    7












    $begingroup$

    Care should be taken because of the pole at $k=0$, let me first take the principal value of the integral. I note that $I(alpha,-r)=barI(alpha,r)$ (complex conjugate), for convenience I will restrict myself to $r>0$.



    The principal value integral evaluates to
    $$I(alpha,r)=int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2)=ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So for $alpha=0$ the result is $I(0,r)=ipibeta$. There is no discontinuity at $alpha=0$, but there is a discontinuous derivative. The same result would have been obtained if we would have set $alpha=0$ before carrying out the integral, because the principal value integral $int dk e^ikrk^-1=ipi$ for $r>0$.



    Alternatively, you could shift the pole off the real axis, still taking $r>0$ the answer then becomes
    $$I(alpha,r)=lim_epsilondownarrow 0int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-iepsilon)(k^2+alpha^2)=2ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So now $I(0,r)=ipi(beta+1)$, still continuous and with a discontinuous derivative.



    We have recoved the result $I_1$, where the limit $epsilondownarrow 0$ is taken before the limit $alpharightarrow 0$. These two limits do not commute, which is why the result $I_2$ in the OP differs from $I_1$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
      $endgroup$
      – jonathan wolf
      May 10 at 21:39







    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
      $endgroup$
      – Nate Eldredge
      May 10 at 22:46










    • $begingroup$
      @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
      $endgroup$
      – vidyarthi
      May 14 at 12:03















    7












    $begingroup$

    Care should be taken because of the pole at $k=0$, let me first take the principal value of the integral. I note that $I(alpha,-r)=barI(alpha,r)$ (complex conjugate), for convenience I will restrict myself to $r>0$.



    The principal value integral evaluates to
    $$I(alpha,r)=int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2)=ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So for $alpha=0$ the result is $I(0,r)=ipibeta$. There is no discontinuity at $alpha=0$, but there is a discontinuous derivative. The same result would have been obtained if we would have set $alpha=0$ before carrying out the integral, because the principal value integral $int dk e^ikrk^-1=ipi$ for $r>0$.



    Alternatively, you could shift the pole off the real axis, still taking $r>0$ the answer then becomes
    $$I(alpha,r)=lim_epsilondownarrow 0int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-iepsilon)(k^2+alpha^2)=2ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So now $I(0,r)=ipi(beta+1)$, still continuous and with a discontinuous derivative.



    We have recoved the result $I_1$, where the limit $epsilondownarrow 0$ is taken before the limit $alpharightarrow 0$. These two limits do not commute, which is why the result $I_2$ in the OP differs from $I_1$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
      $endgroup$
      – jonathan wolf
      May 10 at 21:39







    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
      $endgroup$
      – Nate Eldredge
      May 10 at 22:46










    • $begingroup$
      @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
      $endgroup$
      – vidyarthi
      May 14 at 12:03













    7












    7








    7





    $begingroup$

    Care should be taken because of the pole at $k=0$, let me first take the principal value of the integral. I note that $I(alpha,-r)=barI(alpha,r)$ (complex conjugate), for convenience I will restrict myself to $r>0$.



    The principal value integral evaluates to
    $$I(alpha,r)=int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2)=ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So for $alpha=0$ the result is $I(0,r)=ipibeta$. There is no discontinuity at $alpha=0$, but there is a discontinuous derivative. The same result would have been obtained if we would have set $alpha=0$ before carrying out the integral, because the principal value integral $int dk e^ikrk^-1=ipi$ for $r>0$.



    Alternatively, you could shift the pole off the real axis, still taking $r>0$ the answer then becomes
    $$I(alpha,r)=lim_epsilondownarrow 0int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-iepsilon)(k^2+alpha^2)=2ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So now $I(0,r)=ipi(beta+1)$, still continuous and with a discontinuous derivative.



    We have recoved the result $I_1$, where the limit $epsilondownarrow 0$ is taken before the limit $alpharightarrow 0$. These two limits do not commute, which is why the result $I_2$ in the OP differs from $I_1$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Care should be taken because of the pole at $k=0$, let me first take the principal value of the integral. I note that $I(alpha,-r)=barI(alpha,r)$ (complex conjugate), for convenience I will restrict myself to $r>0$.



    The principal value integral evaluates to
    $$I(alpha,r)=int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2k(k^2+alpha^2)=ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So for $alpha=0$ the result is $I(0,r)=ipibeta$. There is no discontinuity at $alpha=0$, but there is a discontinuous derivative. The same result would have been obtained if we would have set $alpha=0$ before carrying out the integral, because the principal value integral $int dk e^ikrk^-1=ipi$ for $r>0$.



    Alternatively, you could shift the pole off the real axis, still taking $r>0$ the answer then becomes
    $$I(alpha,r)=lim_epsilondownarrow 0int_-infty^infty dk, e^ikr cfracalpha^2 + beta k^2(k-iepsilon)(k^2+alpha^2)=2ipi+ipi(beta-1)e^r.$$
    So now $I(0,r)=ipi(beta+1)$, still continuous and with a discontinuous derivative.



    We have recoved the result $I_1$, where the limit $epsilondownarrow 0$ is taken before the limit $alpharightarrow 0$. These two limits do not commute, which is why the result $I_2$ in the OP differs from $I_1$.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited May 10 at 21:04

























    answered May 10 at 20:27









    Carlo BeenakkerCarlo Beenakker

    82.5k9195299




    82.5k9195299











    • $begingroup$
      Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
      $endgroup$
      – jonathan wolf
      May 10 at 21:39







    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
      $endgroup$
      – Nate Eldredge
      May 10 at 22:46










    • $begingroup$
      @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
      $endgroup$
      – vidyarthi
      May 14 at 12:03
















    • $begingroup$
      Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
      $endgroup$
      – jonathan wolf
      May 10 at 21:39







    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
      $endgroup$
      – Nate Eldredge
      May 10 at 22:46










    • $begingroup$
      @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
      $endgroup$
      – vidyarthi
      May 14 at 12:03















    $begingroup$
    Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – jonathan wolf
    May 10 at 21:39





    $begingroup$
    Thank you very much for your clarifying comment, @CarloBeenakker. The source of my confusion is that I cannot understand why these limits ($lim_alphato 0$ and $lim_varepsilonto 0$) don't commute and what strategy should I follow to obtain a result that does not depend on the order I take those limits. The problem is from physics field theory, so that with $alpha$ being mass of some field, I need to be able to restore the massless limit by setting $alphato0$, as we restore, for instance, the Coulomb potential $1/r$ from the Yukawa $e^-mr/r$ simply by letting $mrightarrow 0$.
    $endgroup$
    – jonathan wolf
    May 10 at 21:39





    5




    5




    $begingroup$
    Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    May 10 at 22:46




    $begingroup$
    Philosophically, you ought to assume that limits don't commute until you can prove that they do, e.g. using uniform convergence.
    $endgroup$
    – Nate Eldredge
    May 10 at 22:46












    $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
    $endgroup$
    – vidyarthi
    May 14 at 12:03




    $begingroup$
    @NateEldredge or, even dominated/monotone convergence
    $endgroup$
    – vidyarthi
    May 14 at 12:03











    1












    $begingroup$

    It is not unreasonable that a massless field behaves in a way that is totally different from a massive one with arbitrarily small mass. Already at an elementary level, you can always perform a Lorentz transformation to the rest frame of a massive excitation; there is no such transformation for a massless one.



    Whenever you encounter a mathematical ambiguity in a physics problem, it means that you have not taken into account all the necessary physics information. Physics has to tell you which order of limits is the relevant one. The $epsilon $ prescriptions you are using usually serve to implement causality in the propagators you are evaluating - that may yield a clue. In mathematical terms: You are solving a PDE - what boundary conditions are you trying to satisfy?



    Without knowing the full details of what you're calculating, one possibility is that you are considering the propagation of an actual massive particle, regardless of how small the mass is. In that case, $epsilon $ has to be kept much smaller than $alpha $, i.e., the order of limits is opposite to the case of the massless field. Another possibility is that you are treating the propagation of a massless particle, and merely introducing a mass as an infrared regulator at an intermediate stage. That is a rather subtle thing to do! One would then require that final physical results are not altered; e.g., that the additional polarization state induced for a photon is not counted in, say, a partition function.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      1












      $begingroup$

      It is not unreasonable that a massless field behaves in a way that is totally different from a massive one with arbitrarily small mass. Already at an elementary level, you can always perform a Lorentz transformation to the rest frame of a massive excitation; there is no such transformation for a massless one.



      Whenever you encounter a mathematical ambiguity in a physics problem, it means that you have not taken into account all the necessary physics information. Physics has to tell you which order of limits is the relevant one. The $epsilon $ prescriptions you are using usually serve to implement causality in the propagators you are evaluating - that may yield a clue. In mathematical terms: You are solving a PDE - what boundary conditions are you trying to satisfy?



      Without knowing the full details of what you're calculating, one possibility is that you are considering the propagation of an actual massive particle, regardless of how small the mass is. In that case, $epsilon $ has to be kept much smaller than $alpha $, i.e., the order of limits is opposite to the case of the massless field. Another possibility is that you are treating the propagation of a massless particle, and merely introducing a mass as an infrared regulator at an intermediate stage. That is a rather subtle thing to do! One would then require that final physical results are not altered; e.g., that the additional polarization state induced for a photon is not counted in, say, a partition function.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        It is not unreasonable that a massless field behaves in a way that is totally different from a massive one with arbitrarily small mass. Already at an elementary level, you can always perform a Lorentz transformation to the rest frame of a massive excitation; there is no such transformation for a massless one.



        Whenever you encounter a mathematical ambiguity in a physics problem, it means that you have not taken into account all the necessary physics information. Physics has to tell you which order of limits is the relevant one. The $epsilon $ prescriptions you are using usually serve to implement causality in the propagators you are evaluating - that may yield a clue. In mathematical terms: You are solving a PDE - what boundary conditions are you trying to satisfy?



        Without knowing the full details of what you're calculating, one possibility is that you are considering the propagation of an actual massive particle, regardless of how small the mass is. In that case, $epsilon $ has to be kept much smaller than $alpha $, i.e., the order of limits is opposite to the case of the massless field. Another possibility is that you are treating the propagation of a massless particle, and merely introducing a mass as an infrared regulator at an intermediate stage. That is a rather subtle thing to do! One would then require that final physical results are not altered; e.g., that the additional polarization state induced for a photon is not counted in, say, a partition function.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        It is not unreasonable that a massless field behaves in a way that is totally different from a massive one with arbitrarily small mass. Already at an elementary level, you can always perform a Lorentz transformation to the rest frame of a massive excitation; there is no such transformation for a massless one.



        Whenever you encounter a mathematical ambiguity in a physics problem, it means that you have not taken into account all the necessary physics information. Physics has to tell you which order of limits is the relevant one. The $epsilon $ prescriptions you are using usually serve to implement causality in the propagators you are evaluating - that may yield a clue. In mathematical terms: You are solving a PDE - what boundary conditions are you trying to satisfy?



        Without knowing the full details of what you're calculating, one possibility is that you are considering the propagation of an actual massive particle, regardless of how small the mass is. In that case, $epsilon $ has to be kept much smaller than $alpha $, i.e., the order of limits is opposite to the case of the massless field. Another possibility is that you are treating the propagation of a massless particle, and merely introducing a mass as an infrared regulator at an intermediate stage. That is a rather subtle thing to do! One would then require that final physical results are not altered; e.g., that the additional polarization state induced for a photon is not counted in, say, a partition function.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited May 11 at 13:42

























        answered May 11 at 3:12









        Michael EngelhardtMichael Engelhardt

        113




        113



























            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to MathOverflow!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f331237%2flimit-of-an-integral-vs-limit-of-the-integrand%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Club Baloncesto Breogán Índice Historia | Pavillón | Nome | O Breogán na cultura popular | Xogadores | Adestradores | Presidentes | Palmarés | Historial | Líderes | Notas | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegacióncbbreogan.galCadroGuía oficial da ACB 2009-10, páxina 201Guía oficial ACB 1992, páxina 183. Editorial DB.É de 6.500 espectadores sentados axeitándose á última normativa"Estudiantes Junior, entre as mellores canteiras"o orixinalHemeroteca El Mundo Deportivo, 16 setembro de 1970, páxina 12Historia do BreogánAlfredo Pérez, o último canoneiroHistoria C.B. BreogánHemeroteca de El Mundo DeportivoJimmy Wright, norteamericano do Breogán deixará Lugo por ameazas de morteResultados de Breogán en 1986-87Resultados de Breogán en 1990-91Ficha de Velimir Perasović en acb.comResultados de Breogán en 1994-95Breogán arrasa al Barça. "El Mundo Deportivo", 27 de setembro de 1999, páxina 58CB Breogán - FC BarcelonaA FEB invita a participar nunha nova Liga EuropeaCharlie Bell na prensa estatalMáximos anotadores 2005Tempada 2005-06 : Tódolos Xogadores da Xornada""Non quero pensar nunha man negra, mais pregúntome que está a pasar""o orixinalRaúl López, orgulloso dos xogadores, presume da boa saúde económica do BreogánJulio González confirma que cesa como presidente del BreogánHomenaxe a Lisardo GómezA tempada do rexurdimento celesteEntrevista a Lisardo GómezEl COB dinamita el Pazo para forzar el quinto (69-73)Cafés Candelas, patrocinador del CB Breogán"Suso Lázare, novo presidente do Breogán"o orixinalCafés Candelas Breogán firma el mayor triunfo de la historiaEl Breogán realizará 17 homenajes por su cincuenta aniversario"O Breogán honra ao seu fundador e primeiro presidente"o orixinalMiguel Giao recibiu a homenaxe do PazoHomenaxe aos primeiros gladiadores celestesO home que nos amosa como ver o Breo co corazónTita Franco será homenaxeada polos #50anosdeBreoJulio Vila recibirá unha homenaxe in memoriam polos #50anosdeBreo"O Breogán homenaxeará aos seus aboados máis veteráns"Pechada ovación a «Capi» Sanmartín e Ricardo «Corazón de González»Homenaxe por décadas de informaciónPaco García volve ao Pazo con motivo do 50 aniversario"Resultados y clasificaciones""O Cafés Candelas Breogán, campión da Copa Princesa""O Cafés Candelas Breogán, equipo ACB"C.B. Breogán"Proxecto social"o orixinal"Centros asociados"o orixinalFicha en imdb.comMario Camus trata la recuperación del amor en 'La vieja música', su última película"Páxina web oficial""Club Baloncesto Breogán""C. B. Breogán S.A.D."eehttp://www.fegaba.com

            Vilaño, A Laracha Índice Patrimonio | Lugares e parroquias | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegación43°14′52″N 8°36′03″O / 43.24775, -8.60070

            Cegueira Índice Epidemioloxía | Deficiencia visual | Tipos de cegueira | Principais causas de cegueira | Tratamento | Técnicas de adaptación e axudas | Vida dos cegos | Primeiros auxilios | Crenzas respecto das persoas cegas | Crenzas das persoas cegas | O neno deficiente visual | Aspectos psicolóxicos da cegueira | Notas | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegación54.054.154.436928256blindnessDicionario da Real Academia GalegaPortal das Palabras"International Standards: Visual Standards — Aspects and Ranges of Vision Loss with Emphasis on Population Surveys.""Visual impairment and blindness""Presentan un plan para previr a cegueira"o orixinalACCDV Associació Catalana de Cecs i Disminuïts Visuals - PMFTrachoma"Effect of gene therapy on visual function in Leber's congenital amaurosis"1844137110.1056/NEJMoa0802268Cans guía - os mellores amigos dos cegosArquivadoEscola de cans guía para cegos en Mortágua, PortugalArquivado"Tecnología para ciegos y deficientes visuales. Recopilación de recursos gratuitos en la Red""Colorino""‘COL.diesis’, escuchar los sonidos del color""COL.diesis: Transforming Colour into Melody and Implementing the Result in a Colour Sensor Device"o orixinal"Sistema de desarrollo de sinestesia color-sonido para invidentes utilizando un protocolo de audio""Enseñanza táctil - geometría y color. Juegos didácticos para niños ciegos y videntes""Sistema Constanz"L'ocupació laboral dels cecs a l'Estat espanyol està pràcticament equiparada a la de les persones amb visió, entrevista amb Pedro ZuritaONCE (Organización Nacional de Cegos de España)Prevención da cegueiraDescrición de deficiencias visuais (Disc@pnet)Braillín, un boneco atractivo para calquera neno, con ou sen discapacidade, que permite familiarizarse co sistema de escritura e lectura brailleAxudas Técnicas36838ID00897494007150-90057129528256DOID:1432HP:0000618D001766C10.597.751.941.162C97109C0155020