Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic)Why does Catholicism have priests but Protestantism does not?How do Protestants deal with pre-Reformation heresies?What is the argument against the imposition of clerical celibacy as practiced in the Roman Catholic Church?Real vs fake pastorsAre there any major Protestant denominations that meet every day and are together all the time like the early church was?Biblical basis for non-practice of Kiss of PeaceIs there any evidence to support a preference for second-career pastors coming disproportionately from IT?Is 'Non-Catholic Non-Orthodox Modern Western Denomination' an ok definition of Protestant?Do any Protestant denominations recognize Latter Day Saints as Christians?According to Protestants, must clergy be ordained by other ordained clergy?
Where else does the Shulchan Aruch quote an authority by name?
Does the average primeness of natural numbers tend to zero?
I see my dog run
Does it makes sense to buy a new cycle to learn riding?
How to manage monthly salary
How to make payment on the internet without leaving a money trail?
Why airport relocation isn't done gradually?
Why doesn't a const reference extend the life of a temporary object passed via a function?
Are cabin dividers used to "hide" the flex of the airplane?
How to answer pointed "are you quitting" questioning when I don't want them to suspect
Is ipsum/ipsa/ipse a third person pronoun, or can it serve other functions?
Could a US political party gain complete control over the government by removing checks & balances?
Lied on resume at previous job
Prime joint compound before latex paint?
Check if two datetimes are between two others
What happens when a metallic dragon and a chromatic dragon mate?
Why is the design of haulage companies so “special”?
When blogging recipes, how can I support both readers who want the narrative/journey and ones who want the printer-friendly recipe?
I’m planning on buying a laser printer but concerned about the life cycle of toner in the machine
How can I fix this gap between bookcases I made?
Can I find out the caloric content of bread by dehydrating it?
Why do we use polarized capacitors?
How to move the player while also allowing forces to affect it
How to deal with fear of taking dependencies
Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic)
Why does Catholicism have priests but Protestantism does not?How do Protestants deal with pre-Reformation heresies?What is the argument against the imposition of clerical celibacy as practiced in the Roman Catholic Church?Real vs fake pastorsAre there any major Protestant denominations that meet every day and are together all the time like the early church was?Biblical basis for non-practice of Kiss of PeaceIs there any evidence to support a preference for second-career pastors coming disproportionately from IT?Is 'Non-Catholic Non-Orthodox Modern Western Denomination' an ok definition of Protestant?Do any Protestant denominations recognize Latter Day Saints as Christians?According to Protestants, must clergy be ordained by other ordained clergy?
After the Splintering of the Protestant Revolt, there have been many men who are famous as Pastors and Preachers even up to the present day, the Billy Grahams the Joel Olstiens, John McArthurs, an Ellen G. White and so on.
My questions is, are there any famous Biblical Pastors before the 15th century that were not Catholic or Catholic-Orthodox priests or bishops or members of the Catholic or Catholic Orthodox Churches? Someone who for example, did not celebrate the traditional sacrament of the Mass?
protestantism pastor early-church-history
|
show 7 more comments
After the Splintering of the Protestant Revolt, there have been many men who are famous as Pastors and Preachers even up to the present day, the Billy Grahams the Joel Olstiens, John McArthurs, an Ellen G. White and so on.
My questions is, are there any famous Biblical Pastors before the 15th century that were not Catholic or Catholic-Orthodox priests or bishops or members of the Catholic or Catholic Orthodox Churches? Someone who for example, did not celebrate the traditional sacrament of the Mass?
protestantism pastor early-church-history
1
@DJClayworth EOC is Catholic
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:32
2
No, they are Orthodox.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 19:33
1
@DJClayworth Well, if you are right, someone should inform them.
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:37
2
D J Clayworth is correct. The Orthodox may use the word "Catholic" in their official title, but they are definitely not Catholic. Ever see an Orthodox patriarch concelebrate Mass with the Pope. Obviously No! They are not united with the Roman Catholic Church as are Eastern Rite Catholics are.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 20:23
2
@Marc. It has to do with the shifting meaning of 'Catholic'. Today it means 'Roman Catholic' (led by Roman bishop, curia in Rome). But as Korvin mentioned, in the Apostle's Creed era, Catholic means all churches who agree on the apostolic tradition at least until the council of Chalcedon (451 AD) and this includes the Eastern Orthodox churches. By definition catholic means universal; what to do when both Roman church and Eastern church claim universality?
– Paul S. Lee
Apr 4 at 22:38
|
show 7 more comments
After the Splintering of the Protestant Revolt, there have been many men who are famous as Pastors and Preachers even up to the present day, the Billy Grahams the Joel Olstiens, John McArthurs, an Ellen G. White and so on.
My questions is, are there any famous Biblical Pastors before the 15th century that were not Catholic or Catholic-Orthodox priests or bishops or members of the Catholic or Catholic Orthodox Churches? Someone who for example, did not celebrate the traditional sacrament of the Mass?
protestantism pastor early-church-history
After the Splintering of the Protestant Revolt, there have been many men who are famous as Pastors and Preachers even up to the present day, the Billy Grahams the Joel Olstiens, John McArthurs, an Ellen G. White and so on.
My questions is, are there any famous Biblical Pastors before the 15th century that were not Catholic or Catholic-Orthodox priests or bishops or members of the Catholic or Catholic Orthodox Churches? Someone who for example, did not celebrate the traditional sacrament of the Mass?
protestantism pastor early-church-history
protestantism pastor early-church-history
edited 2 days ago
Ken Graham
16.6k32164
16.6k32164
asked Apr 4 at 19:18
MarcMarc
2,145722
2,145722
1
@DJClayworth EOC is Catholic
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:32
2
No, they are Orthodox.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 19:33
1
@DJClayworth Well, if you are right, someone should inform them.
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:37
2
D J Clayworth is correct. The Orthodox may use the word "Catholic" in their official title, but they are definitely not Catholic. Ever see an Orthodox patriarch concelebrate Mass with the Pope. Obviously No! They are not united with the Roman Catholic Church as are Eastern Rite Catholics are.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 20:23
2
@Marc. It has to do with the shifting meaning of 'Catholic'. Today it means 'Roman Catholic' (led by Roman bishop, curia in Rome). But as Korvin mentioned, in the Apostle's Creed era, Catholic means all churches who agree on the apostolic tradition at least until the council of Chalcedon (451 AD) and this includes the Eastern Orthodox churches. By definition catholic means universal; what to do when both Roman church and Eastern church claim universality?
– Paul S. Lee
Apr 4 at 22:38
|
show 7 more comments
1
@DJClayworth EOC is Catholic
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:32
2
No, they are Orthodox.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 19:33
1
@DJClayworth Well, if you are right, someone should inform them.
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:37
2
D J Clayworth is correct. The Orthodox may use the word "Catholic" in their official title, but they are definitely not Catholic. Ever see an Orthodox patriarch concelebrate Mass with the Pope. Obviously No! They are not united with the Roman Catholic Church as are Eastern Rite Catholics are.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 20:23
2
@Marc. It has to do with the shifting meaning of 'Catholic'. Today it means 'Roman Catholic' (led by Roman bishop, curia in Rome). But as Korvin mentioned, in the Apostle's Creed era, Catholic means all churches who agree on the apostolic tradition at least until the council of Chalcedon (451 AD) and this includes the Eastern Orthodox churches. By definition catholic means universal; what to do when both Roman church and Eastern church claim universality?
– Paul S. Lee
Apr 4 at 22:38
1
1
@DJClayworth EOC is Catholic
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:32
@DJClayworth EOC is Catholic
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:32
2
2
No, they are Orthodox.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 19:33
No, they are Orthodox.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 19:33
1
1
@DJClayworth Well, if you are right, someone should inform them.
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:37
@DJClayworth Well, if you are right, someone should inform them.
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:37
2
2
D J Clayworth is correct. The Orthodox may use the word "Catholic" in their official title, but they are definitely not Catholic. Ever see an Orthodox patriarch concelebrate Mass with the Pope. Obviously No! They are not united with the Roman Catholic Church as are Eastern Rite Catholics are.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 20:23
D J Clayworth is correct. The Orthodox may use the word "Catholic" in their official title, but they are definitely not Catholic. Ever see an Orthodox patriarch concelebrate Mass with the Pope. Obviously No! They are not united with the Roman Catholic Church as are Eastern Rite Catholics are.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 20:23
2
2
@Marc. It has to do with the shifting meaning of 'Catholic'. Today it means 'Roman Catholic' (led by Roman bishop, curia in Rome). But as Korvin mentioned, in the Apostle's Creed era, Catholic means all churches who agree on the apostolic tradition at least until the council of Chalcedon (451 AD) and this includes the Eastern Orthodox churches. By definition catholic means universal; what to do when both Roman church and Eastern church claim universality?
– Paul S. Lee
Apr 4 at 22:38
@Marc. It has to do with the shifting meaning of 'Catholic'. Today it means 'Roman Catholic' (led by Roman bishop, curia in Rome). But as Korvin mentioned, in the Apostle's Creed era, Catholic means all churches who agree on the apostolic tradition at least until the council of Chalcedon (451 AD) and this includes the Eastern Orthodox churches. By definition catholic means universal; what to do when both Roman church and Eastern church claim universality?
– Paul S. Lee
Apr 4 at 22:38
|
show 7 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
One example of Pre-Reformation, Pre-Protestant non-Catholic Christian movements was the Lollards. Lollards included John Wycliffe, William Thorpe and John Oldcastle.
Per Wikipedia:
Lollardy was a religion of vernacular scripture. Lollards opposed many practices of the Catholic church. Anne Hudson has written that a form of sola scriptura underpinned Wycliffite beliefs, but distinguished it from the more radical ideology that anything not permitted by scripture is forbidden. Instead, Hudson notes that Wycliffite sola scriptura held the Bible to be "the only valid source of doctrine and the only pertinent measure of legitimacy."
With regard to the Eucharist, Lollards such as John Wycliffe, William Thorpe, and John Oldcastle, taught a view of the real presence of Christ in Holy Communion known as "consubstantiation" and did not accept the doctrine of transubstantiation, as taught by the Roman Catholic Church in 1215.
2
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
1
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
1
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
1
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
2
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
|
show 3 more comments
Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic and Non Orthodox)
Just how far back does one desire to go? Here is one example from the second century:
Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) was an important figure in early Christianity. His theology rejected the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures and in distinction affirmed the Father of Christ as the true God. The Church Fathers denounced Marcion, and he was excommunicated from the proto-orthodox Church. He published his own list of New Testament books, making him a catalyst in speeding up the process of development of the New Testament canon by forcing the early Church to respond to his claims. His movement was known as Marcionism
All in all, I believe what you are looking for is to be more informed about Proto-Protestant leaders and preachers.
Proto-Protestantism, also called pre-Protestantism, refers to individuals and movements that propagated ideas similar to Protestantism before 1517, which is usually considered the starting year for the Reformation era. Major representatives were Peter Waldo (c. 1140 – c. 1205), John Wycliffe (1320s–1384), Jan Hus (c. 1369–1415) and the movements they started.
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
In the early 1170s, Peter Waldo founded the Waldensians. He preached for strict adherence to the Bible, for simplicity and poverty, against Catholic dogmas, like the purgatory and transubstantiation which led to conflicts with the Roman Catholic Church. He initiated, and contributed to, a translation of the New Testament into the vernacular, the Arpitan (Franco-Provençal) language.
The Waldensians had adopted ideas that in the late 1130s, Arnold of Brescia, an Italian canon regular, had developed in an first attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church. His teachings on apostolic poverty gained currency among Arnoldists. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.
John Wycliffe and the Lollards
John Wycliffe (1320s – 1384) was an English theologian and professor at the University of Oxford who developed many ideas similar to those later promoted in the Reformation. He rejected papal authority over secular power, translated the Bible into vernacular English, and preached anticlerical and biblically-centred reforms. Wycliffe's teachings were spread by his followers, known as Lollards.
Jan Hus and the Hussites
Beginning in the first decade of the 15th century, Jan Hus, a Czech Catholic priest and professor who was influenced by John Wycliffe's writings, founded the Hussite movement. He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415 by secular authorities. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.
Later on, theological disputes caused a split within the Hussite movement. Utraquists maintained that both the bread and the wine should be administered to the people during the Eucharist. Another major faction were the Taborites, who opposed the Utraquists in the Battle of Lipany during the Hussite Wars. There were two separate parties among the Hussites: moderate and radical movements. Other smaller regional Hussite branches in Bohemia included Adamites, Orebites, Orphans and Praguers.
Less influential early reformers
Throughout the Middle Ages, there were many Christian sects, cults and movements whose teachings foreshadowed later Protestant movements. Some of the main groups were:
Paulicians – an Armenian group (6th to 9th centuries) who sought a return to the purity of the church at the time of Paul the Apostle.
Tondrakians - an Armenian group (9th to 11th centuries) who advocated the abolition of the Church along with all its traditional rites.
Bogomils – a group arising in the 10th century in Bulgaria, Macedonia[citation needed]and the Balkans who sought a return to the spirituality of the early Christians and opposed established forms of government and church.
Arnoldists – a 12th century group from Lombardy who criticized the wealth of the Catholic Church and preached against baptism and the Eucharist. Named after Arnold of Brescia (c. 1090 – June 1155).
Petrobrusians were 12th century followers of Peter of Bruys in southeastern France who rejected the authority of the Church Fathers and of the Catholic Church, opposing clerical celibacy, infant baptism, prayers for the dead and organ music.
Henricans were 12th century followers of Henry of Lausanne in France. They rejected the doctrinal and disciplinary authority of the church, did not recognize any form of worship or liturgy and denied the sacraments.
Brethren of the Free Spirit – a term applied in the 13th century to those, primarily in the Low Countries, Germany, France, Bohemia and northern Italy, who believed that the sacraments were unnecessary for salvation, that the soul could be perfected through imitating the life of Christ, and that the perfected soul was free of sin and beyond all ecclesiastical, moral and secular law.
Apostolic Brethren (later known as Dulcinians) – a 13th to 14th century sect from northern Italy founded by Gerard Segarelli and continued by Fra Dolcino of Novara. The Apostolic Brethren rejected the worldliness of the church and sought a life of perfect sanctity, in complete poverty, with no fixed domicile, no care for the morrow, and no vows.
Neo-Adamites – a term applied in the 13th to 15th century to those, including Taborites, Picards and some Beghards, who wished to return to the purity of the life of Adam by living communally, practicing social and religious nudity, embracing free love and rejecting marriage and individual ownership of property.
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "304"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchristianity.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f69394%2ffamous-pre-reformation-christian-pastors-non-catholic%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
One example of Pre-Reformation, Pre-Protestant non-Catholic Christian movements was the Lollards. Lollards included John Wycliffe, William Thorpe and John Oldcastle.
Per Wikipedia:
Lollardy was a religion of vernacular scripture. Lollards opposed many practices of the Catholic church. Anne Hudson has written that a form of sola scriptura underpinned Wycliffite beliefs, but distinguished it from the more radical ideology that anything not permitted by scripture is forbidden. Instead, Hudson notes that Wycliffite sola scriptura held the Bible to be "the only valid source of doctrine and the only pertinent measure of legitimacy."
With regard to the Eucharist, Lollards such as John Wycliffe, William Thorpe, and John Oldcastle, taught a view of the real presence of Christ in Holy Communion known as "consubstantiation" and did not accept the doctrine of transubstantiation, as taught by the Roman Catholic Church in 1215.
2
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
1
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
1
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
1
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
2
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
|
show 3 more comments
One example of Pre-Reformation, Pre-Protestant non-Catholic Christian movements was the Lollards. Lollards included John Wycliffe, William Thorpe and John Oldcastle.
Per Wikipedia:
Lollardy was a religion of vernacular scripture. Lollards opposed many practices of the Catholic church. Anne Hudson has written that a form of sola scriptura underpinned Wycliffite beliefs, but distinguished it from the more radical ideology that anything not permitted by scripture is forbidden. Instead, Hudson notes that Wycliffite sola scriptura held the Bible to be "the only valid source of doctrine and the only pertinent measure of legitimacy."
With regard to the Eucharist, Lollards such as John Wycliffe, William Thorpe, and John Oldcastle, taught a view of the real presence of Christ in Holy Communion known as "consubstantiation" and did not accept the doctrine of transubstantiation, as taught by the Roman Catholic Church in 1215.
2
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
1
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
1
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
1
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
2
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
|
show 3 more comments
One example of Pre-Reformation, Pre-Protestant non-Catholic Christian movements was the Lollards. Lollards included John Wycliffe, William Thorpe and John Oldcastle.
Per Wikipedia:
Lollardy was a religion of vernacular scripture. Lollards opposed many practices of the Catholic church. Anne Hudson has written that a form of sola scriptura underpinned Wycliffite beliefs, but distinguished it from the more radical ideology that anything not permitted by scripture is forbidden. Instead, Hudson notes that Wycliffite sola scriptura held the Bible to be "the only valid source of doctrine and the only pertinent measure of legitimacy."
With regard to the Eucharist, Lollards such as John Wycliffe, William Thorpe, and John Oldcastle, taught a view of the real presence of Christ in Holy Communion known as "consubstantiation" and did not accept the doctrine of transubstantiation, as taught by the Roman Catholic Church in 1215.
One example of Pre-Reformation, Pre-Protestant non-Catholic Christian movements was the Lollards. Lollards included John Wycliffe, William Thorpe and John Oldcastle.
Per Wikipedia:
Lollardy was a religion of vernacular scripture. Lollards opposed many practices of the Catholic church. Anne Hudson has written that a form of sola scriptura underpinned Wycliffite beliefs, but distinguished it from the more radical ideology that anything not permitted by scripture is forbidden. Instead, Hudson notes that Wycliffite sola scriptura held the Bible to be "the only valid source of doctrine and the only pertinent measure of legitimacy."
With regard to the Eucharist, Lollards such as John Wycliffe, William Thorpe, and John Oldcastle, taught a view of the real presence of Christ in Holy Communion known as "consubstantiation" and did not accept the doctrine of transubstantiation, as taught by the Roman Catholic Church in 1215.
edited Apr 4 at 23:07
Ken Graham
16.6k32164
16.6k32164
answered Apr 4 at 20:33
DJClayworthDJClayworth
22k44395
22k44395
2
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
1
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
1
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
1
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
2
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
|
show 3 more comments
2
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
1
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
1
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
1
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
2
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
2
2
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
@SolaGratia Wikipedia does not say that transubstantiation was taught only in 1215. They did not accept that doctrine as taught in 1215.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 22:20
1
1
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
It's Wikipedia. You can go and edit it yourself.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 22:57
1
1
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
These men were all Lollards, some were Catholic, they are not Protestants, but Reformers. The Questions asks for Pre-Reformation Pastors, not Catholic Reformation players. These men all celebrated Mass!
– Marc
Apr 5 at 12:02
1
1
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
You asked for "before the 15th Century" which they certainly were. Wikipedia describes them as pre-Reformation. Most of them left or were thrown out of the Catholic church. The line between Protestants and Reformers is very blurry. Even Luther originally intended to reform the Catholic church. Given that the Catholic church was the only church in much of the world at that time, you are going to have a hard time finding someone who was never associated with it.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:39
2
2
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
Ken Graham's answer is much more comprehensive than mine. I would accept his answer.
– DJClayworth
Apr 5 at 12:44
|
show 3 more comments
Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic and Non Orthodox)
Just how far back does one desire to go? Here is one example from the second century:
Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) was an important figure in early Christianity. His theology rejected the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures and in distinction affirmed the Father of Christ as the true God. The Church Fathers denounced Marcion, and he was excommunicated from the proto-orthodox Church. He published his own list of New Testament books, making him a catalyst in speeding up the process of development of the New Testament canon by forcing the early Church to respond to his claims. His movement was known as Marcionism
All in all, I believe what you are looking for is to be more informed about Proto-Protestant leaders and preachers.
Proto-Protestantism, also called pre-Protestantism, refers to individuals and movements that propagated ideas similar to Protestantism before 1517, which is usually considered the starting year for the Reformation era. Major representatives were Peter Waldo (c. 1140 – c. 1205), John Wycliffe (1320s–1384), Jan Hus (c. 1369–1415) and the movements they started.
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
In the early 1170s, Peter Waldo founded the Waldensians. He preached for strict adherence to the Bible, for simplicity and poverty, against Catholic dogmas, like the purgatory and transubstantiation which led to conflicts with the Roman Catholic Church. He initiated, and contributed to, a translation of the New Testament into the vernacular, the Arpitan (Franco-Provençal) language.
The Waldensians had adopted ideas that in the late 1130s, Arnold of Brescia, an Italian canon regular, had developed in an first attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church. His teachings on apostolic poverty gained currency among Arnoldists. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.
John Wycliffe and the Lollards
John Wycliffe (1320s – 1384) was an English theologian and professor at the University of Oxford who developed many ideas similar to those later promoted in the Reformation. He rejected papal authority over secular power, translated the Bible into vernacular English, and preached anticlerical and biblically-centred reforms. Wycliffe's teachings were spread by his followers, known as Lollards.
Jan Hus and the Hussites
Beginning in the first decade of the 15th century, Jan Hus, a Czech Catholic priest and professor who was influenced by John Wycliffe's writings, founded the Hussite movement. He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415 by secular authorities. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.
Later on, theological disputes caused a split within the Hussite movement. Utraquists maintained that both the bread and the wine should be administered to the people during the Eucharist. Another major faction were the Taborites, who opposed the Utraquists in the Battle of Lipany during the Hussite Wars. There were two separate parties among the Hussites: moderate and radical movements. Other smaller regional Hussite branches in Bohemia included Adamites, Orebites, Orphans and Praguers.
Less influential early reformers
Throughout the Middle Ages, there were many Christian sects, cults and movements whose teachings foreshadowed later Protestant movements. Some of the main groups were:
Paulicians – an Armenian group (6th to 9th centuries) who sought a return to the purity of the church at the time of Paul the Apostle.
Tondrakians - an Armenian group (9th to 11th centuries) who advocated the abolition of the Church along with all its traditional rites.
Bogomils – a group arising in the 10th century in Bulgaria, Macedonia[citation needed]and the Balkans who sought a return to the spirituality of the early Christians and opposed established forms of government and church.
Arnoldists – a 12th century group from Lombardy who criticized the wealth of the Catholic Church and preached against baptism and the Eucharist. Named after Arnold of Brescia (c. 1090 – June 1155).
Petrobrusians were 12th century followers of Peter of Bruys in southeastern France who rejected the authority of the Church Fathers and of the Catholic Church, opposing clerical celibacy, infant baptism, prayers for the dead and organ music.
Henricans were 12th century followers of Henry of Lausanne in France. They rejected the doctrinal and disciplinary authority of the church, did not recognize any form of worship or liturgy and denied the sacraments.
Brethren of the Free Spirit – a term applied in the 13th century to those, primarily in the Low Countries, Germany, France, Bohemia and northern Italy, who believed that the sacraments were unnecessary for salvation, that the soul could be perfected through imitating the life of Christ, and that the perfected soul was free of sin and beyond all ecclesiastical, moral and secular law.
Apostolic Brethren (later known as Dulcinians) – a 13th to 14th century sect from northern Italy founded by Gerard Segarelli and continued by Fra Dolcino of Novara. The Apostolic Brethren rejected the worldliness of the church and sought a life of perfect sanctity, in complete poverty, with no fixed domicile, no care for the morrow, and no vows.
Neo-Adamites – a term applied in the 13th to 15th century to those, including Taborites, Picards and some Beghards, who wished to return to the purity of the life of Adam by living communally, practicing social and religious nudity, embracing free love and rejecting marriage and individual ownership of property.
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
add a comment |
Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic and Non Orthodox)
Just how far back does one desire to go? Here is one example from the second century:
Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) was an important figure in early Christianity. His theology rejected the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures and in distinction affirmed the Father of Christ as the true God. The Church Fathers denounced Marcion, and he was excommunicated from the proto-orthodox Church. He published his own list of New Testament books, making him a catalyst in speeding up the process of development of the New Testament canon by forcing the early Church to respond to his claims. His movement was known as Marcionism
All in all, I believe what you are looking for is to be more informed about Proto-Protestant leaders and preachers.
Proto-Protestantism, also called pre-Protestantism, refers to individuals and movements that propagated ideas similar to Protestantism before 1517, which is usually considered the starting year for the Reformation era. Major representatives were Peter Waldo (c. 1140 – c. 1205), John Wycliffe (1320s–1384), Jan Hus (c. 1369–1415) and the movements they started.
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
In the early 1170s, Peter Waldo founded the Waldensians. He preached for strict adherence to the Bible, for simplicity and poverty, against Catholic dogmas, like the purgatory and transubstantiation which led to conflicts with the Roman Catholic Church. He initiated, and contributed to, a translation of the New Testament into the vernacular, the Arpitan (Franco-Provençal) language.
The Waldensians had adopted ideas that in the late 1130s, Arnold of Brescia, an Italian canon regular, had developed in an first attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church. His teachings on apostolic poverty gained currency among Arnoldists. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.
John Wycliffe and the Lollards
John Wycliffe (1320s – 1384) was an English theologian and professor at the University of Oxford who developed many ideas similar to those later promoted in the Reformation. He rejected papal authority over secular power, translated the Bible into vernacular English, and preached anticlerical and biblically-centred reforms. Wycliffe's teachings were spread by his followers, known as Lollards.
Jan Hus and the Hussites
Beginning in the first decade of the 15th century, Jan Hus, a Czech Catholic priest and professor who was influenced by John Wycliffe's writings, founded the Hussite movement. He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415 by secular authorities. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.
Later on, theological disputes caused a split within the Hussite movement. Utraquists maintained that both the bread and the wine should be administered to the people during the Eucharist. Another major faction were the Taborites, who opposed the Utraquists in the Battle of Lipany during the Hussite Wars. There were two separate parties among the Hussites: moderate and radical movements. Other smaller regional Hussite branches in Bohemia included Adamites, Orebites, Orphans and Praguers.
Less influential early reformers
Throughout the Middle Ages, there were many Christian sects, cults and movements whose teachings foreshadowed later Protestant movements. Some of the main groups were:
Paulicians – an Armenian group (6th to 9th centuries) who sought a return to the purity of the church at the time of Paul the Apostle.
Tondrakians - an Armenian group (9th to 11th centuries) who advocated the abolition of the Church along with all its traditional rites.
Bogomils – a group arising in the 10th century in Bulgaria, Macedonia[citation needed]and the Balkans who sought a return to the spirituality of the early Christians and opposed established forms of government and church.
Arnoldists – a 12th century group from Lombardy who criticized the wealth of the Catholic Church and preached against baptism and the Eucharist. Named after Arnold of Brescia (c. 1090 – June 1155).
Petrobrusians were 12th century followers of Peter of Bruys in southeastern France who rejected the authority of the Church Fathers and of the Catholic Church, opposing clerical celibacy, infant baptism, prayers for the dead and organ music.
Henricans were 12th century followers of Henry of Lausanne in France. They rejected the doctrinal and disciplinary authority of the church, did not recognize any form of worship or liturgy and denied the sacraments.
Brethren of the Free Spirit – a term applied in the 13th century to those, primarily in the Low Countries, Germany, France, Bohemia and northern Italy, who believed that the sacraments were unnecessary for salvation, that the soul could be perfected through imitating the life of Christ, and that the perfected soul was free of sin and beyond all ecclesiastical, moral and secular law.
Apostolic Brethren (later known as Dulcinians) – a 13th to 14th century sect from northern Italy founded by Gerard Segarelli and continued by Fra Dolcino of Novara. The Apostolic Brethren rejected the worldliness of the church and sought a life of perfect sanctity, in complete poverty, with no fixed domicile, no care for the morrow, and no vows.
Neo-Adamites – a term applied in the 13th to 15th century to those, including Taborites, Picards and some Beghards, who wished to return to the purity of the life of Adam by living communally, practicing social and religious nudity, embracing free love and rejecting marriage and individual ownership of property.
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
add a comment |
Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic and Non Orthodox)
Just how far back does one desire to go? Here is one example from the second century:
Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) was an important figure in early Christianity. His theology rejected the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures and in distinction affirmed the Father of Christ as the true God. The Church Fathers denounced Marcion, and he was excommunicated from the proto-orthodox Church. He published his own list of New Testament books, making him a catalyst in speeding up the process of development of the New Testament canon by forcing the early Church to respond to his claims. His movement was known as Marcionism
All in all, I believe what you are looking for is to be more informed about Proto-Protestant leaders and preachers.
Proto-Protestantism, also called pre-Protestantism, refers to individuals and movements that propagated ideas similar to Protestantism before 1517, which is usually considered the starting year for the Reformation era. Major representatives were Peter Waldo (c. 1140 – c. 1205), John Wycliffe (1320s–1384), Jan Hus (c. 1369–1415) and the movements they started.
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
In the early 1170s, Peter Waldo founded the Waldensians. He preached for strict adherence to the Bible, for simplicity and poverty, against Catholic dogmas, like the purgatory and transubstantiation which led to conflicts with the Roman Catholic Church. He initiated, and contributed to, a translation of the New Testament into the vernacular, the Arpitan (Franco-Provençal) language.
The Waldensians had adopted ideas that in the late 1130s, Arnold of Brescia, an Italian canon regular, had developed in an first attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church. His teachings on apostolic poverty gained currency among Arnoldists. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.
John Wycliffe and the Lollards
John Wycliffe (1320s – 1384) was an English theologian and professor at the University of Oxford who developed many ideas similar to those later promoted in the Reformation. He rejected papal authority over secular power, translated the Bible into vernacular English, and preached anticlerical and biblically-centred reforms. Wycliffe's teachings were spread by his followers, known as Lollards.
Jan Hus and the Hussites
Beginning in the first decade of the 15th century, Jan Hus, a Czech Catholic priest and professor who was influenced by John Wycliffe's writings, founded the Hussite movement. He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415 by secular authorities. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.
Later on, theological disputes caused a split within the Hussite movement. Utraquists maintained that both the bread and the wine should be administered to the people during the Eucharist. Another major faction were the Taborites, who opposed the Utraquists in the Battle of Lipany during the Hussite Wars. There were two separate parties among the Hussites: moderate and radical movements. Other smaller regional Hussite branches in Bohemia included Adamites, Orebites, Orphans and Praguers.
Less influential early reformers
Throughout the Middle Ages, there were many Christian sects, cults and movements whose teachings foreshadowed later Protestant movements. Some of the main groups were:
Paulicians – an Armenian group (6th to 9th centuries) who sought a return to the purity of the church at the time of Paul the Apostle.
Tondrakians - an Armenian group (9th to 11th centuries) who advocated the abolition of the Church along with all its traditional rites.
Bogomils – a group arising in the 10th century in Bulgaria, Macedonia[citation needed]and the Balkans who sought a return to the spirituality of the early Christians and opposed established forms of government and church.
Arnoldists – a 12th century group from Lombardy who criticized the wealth of the Catholic Church and preached against baptism and the Eucharist. Named after Arnold of Brescia (c. 1090 – June 1155).
Petrobrusians were 12th century followers of Peter of Bruys in southeastern France who rejected the authority of the Church Fathers and of the Catholic Church, opposing clerical celibacy, infant baptism, prayers for the dead and organ music.
Henricans were 12th century followers of Henry of Lausanne in France. They rejected the doctrinal and disciplinary authority of the church, did not recognize any form of worship or liturgy and denied the sacraments.
Brethren of the Free Spirit – a term applied in the 13th century to those, primarily in the Low Countries, Germany, France, Bohemia and northern Italy, who believed that the sacraments were unnecessary for salvation, that the soul could be perfected through imitating the life of Christ, and that the perfected soul was free of sin and beyond all ecclesiastical, moral and secular law.
Apostolic Brethren (later known as Dulcinians) – a 13th to 14th century sect from northern Italy founded by Gerard Segarelli and continued by Fra Dolcino of Novara. The Apostolic Brethren rejected the worldliness of the church and sought a life of perfect sanctity, in complete poverty, with no fixed domicile, no care for the morrow, and no vows.
Neo-Adamites – a term applied in the 13th to 15th century to those, including Taborites, Picards and some Beghards, who wished to return to the purity of the life of Adam by living communally, practicing social and religious nudity, embracing free love and rejecting marriage and individual ownership of property.
Famous Pre Reformation Christian Pastors (Non Catholic and Non Orthodox)
Just how far back does one desire to go? Here is one example from the second century:
Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) was an important figure in early Christianity. His theology rejected the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures and in distinction affirmed the Father of Christ as the true God. The Church Fathers denounced Marcion, and he was excommunicated from the proto-orthodox Church. He published his own list of New Testament books, making him a catalyst in speeding up the process of development of the New Testament canon by forcing the early Church to respond to his claims. His movement was known as Marcionism
All in all, I believe what you are looking for is to be more informed about Proto-Protestant leaders and preachers.
Proto-Protestantism, also called pre-Protestantism, refers to individuals and movements that propagated ideas similar to Protestantism before 1517, which is usually considered the starting year for the Reformation era. Major representatives were Peter Waldo (c. 1140 – c. 1205), John Wycliffe (1320s–1384), Jan Hus (c. 1369–1415) and the movements they started.
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
In the early 1170s, Peter Waldo founded the Waldensians. He preached for strict adherence to the Bible, for simplicity and poverty, against Catholic dogmas, like the purgatory and transubstantiation which led to conflicts with the Roman Catholic Church. He initiated, and contributed to, a translation of the New Testament into the vernacular, the Arpitan (Franco-Provençal) language.
The Waldensians had adopted ideas that in the late 1130s, Arnold of Brescia, an Italian canon regular, had developed in an first attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church. His teachings on apostolic poverty gained currency among Arnoldists. By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.
John Wycliffe and the Lollards
John Wycliffe (1320s – 1384) was an English theologian and professor at the University of Oxford who developed many ideas similar to those later promoted in the Reformation. He rejected papal authority over secular power, translated the Bible into vernacular English, and preached anticlerical and biblically-centred reforms. Wycliffe's teachings were spread by his followers, known as Lollards.
Jan Hus and the Hussites
Beginning in the first decade of the 15th century, Jan Hus, a Czech Catholic priest and professor who was influenced by John Wycliffe's writings, founded the Hussite movement. He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415 by secular authorities. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.
Later on, theological disputes caused a split within the Hussite movement. Utraquists maintained that both the bread and the wine should be administered to the people during the Eucharist. Another major faction were the Taborites, who opposed the Utraquists in the Battle of Lipany during the Hussite Wars. There were two separate parties among the Hussites: moderate and radical movements. Other smaller regional Hussite branches in Bohemia included Adamites, Orebites, Orphans and Praguers.
Less influential early reformers
Throughout the Middle Ages, there were many Christian sects, cults and movements whose teachings foreshadowed later Protestant movements. Some of the main groups were:
Paulicians – an Armenian group (6th to 9th centuries) who sought a return to the purity of the church at the time of Paul the Apostle.
Tondrakians - an Armenian group (9th to 11th centuries) who advocated the abolition of the Church along with all its traditional rites.
Bogomils – a group arising in the 10th century in Bulgaria, Macedonia[citation needed]and the Balkans who sought a return to the spirituality of the early Christians and opposed established forms of government and church.
Arnoldists – a 12th century group from Lombardy who criticized the wealth of the Catholic Church and preached against baptism and the Eucharist. Named after Arnold of Brescia (c. 1090 – June 1155).
Petrobrusians were 12th century followers of Peter of Bruys in southeastern France who rejected the authority of the Church Fathers and of the Catholic Church, opposing clerical celibacy, infant baptism, prayers for the dead and organ music.
Henricans were 12th century followers of Henry of Lausanne in France. They rejected the doctrinal and disciplinary authority of the church, did not recognize any form of worship or liturgy and denied the sacraments.
Brethren of the Free Spirit – a term applied in the 13th century to those, primarily in the Low Countries, Germany, France, Bohemia and northern Italy, who believed that the sacraments were unnecessary for salvation, that the soul could be perfected through imitating the life of Christ, and that the perfected soul was free of sin and beyond all ecclesiastical, moral and secular law.
Apostolic Brethren (later known as Dulcinians) – a 13th to 14th century sect from northern Italy founded by Gerard Segarelli and continued by Fra Dolcino of Novara. The Apostolic Brethren rejected the worldliness of the church and sought a life of perfect sanctity, in complete poverty, with no fixed domicile, no care for the morrow, and no vows.
Neo-Adamites – a term applied in the 13th to 15th century to those, including Taborites, Picards and some Beghards, who wished to return to the purity of the life of Adam by living communally, practicing social and religious nudity, embracing free love and rejecting marriage and individual ownership of property.
edited Apr 5 at 2:41
answered Apr 4 at 22:17
Ken GrahamKen Graham
16.6k32164
16.6k32164
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
add a comment |
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
Awesome answer, though I don't think many modern Protestants would identify with Marcion.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 23:00
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Christianity Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchristianity.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f69394%2ffamous-pre-reformation-christian-pastors-non-catholic%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
@DJClayworth EOC is Catholic
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:32
2
No, they are Orthodox.
– DJClayworth
Apr 4 at 19:33
1
@DJClayworth Well, if you are right, someone should inform them.
– Marc
Apr 4 at 19:37
2
D J Clayworth is correct. The Orthodox may use the word "Catholic" in their official title, but they are definitely not Catholic. Ever see an Orthodox patriarch concelebrate Mass with the Pope. Obviously No! They are not united with the Roman Catholic Church as are Eastern Rite Catholics are.
– Ken Graham
Apr 4 at 20:23
2
@Marc. It has to do with the shifting meaning of 'Catholic'. Today it means 'Roman Catholic' (led by Roman bishop, curia in Rome). But as Korvin mentioned, in the Apostle's Creed era, Catholic means all churches who agree on the apostolic tradition at least until the council of Chalcedon (451 AD) and this includes the Eastern Orthodox churches. By definition catholic means universal; what to do when both Roman church and Eastern church claim universality?
– Paul S. Lee
Apr 4 at 22:38