Does this “yield your space to an ally” rule my 3.5 group uses appear anywhere in the official rules?Can a character take free action out of her turn?If a character has the TWF feat from 3.5 and the Ambidexterity feat from 3.0, does this remove the TWF penalty?How does this change to the opportunity attack rule impact combat?

If a person had control of every single cell of their body, would they be able to transform into another creature?

Is there an evolutionary advantage to having two heads?

Is floating in space similar to falling under gravity?

Do you play the upbeat when beginning to play a series of notes, and then after?

Logarithm of dependent variable is uniformly distributed. How to calculate a confidence interval for the mean?

How do I subvert the tropes of a train heist?

Under what law can the U.S. arrest International Criminal Court (ICC) judges over war crimes probe?

How did early x86 BIOS programmers manage to program full blown TUIs given very few bytes of ROM/EPROM?

Employer asking for online access to bank account - Is this a scam?

How to capture more stars?

Why is this Simple Puzzle impossible to solve?

Geological aftereffects of an asteroid impact on a large mountain range?

Would the Geas spell work in a dead magic zone once you enter it?

Is the first derivative operation on a signal a causal system?

Ticket sales for Queen at the Live Aid

How were these pictures of spacecraft wind tunnel testing taken?

Where is the logic in castrating fighters?

Array Stutter Implementation

Where is the encrypted mask value?

Does this degree 12 genus 1 curve have only one point over infinitely many finite fields?

Can a Beholder use rays in melee range?

What is the most important source of natural gas? coal, oil or other?

How to prevent bad sectors?

Different circular sectors as new logo of the International System



Does this “yield your space to an ally” rule my 3.5 group uses appear anywhere in the official rules?


Can a character take free action out of her turn?If a character has the TWF feat from 3.5 and the Ambidexterity feat from 3.0, does this remove the TWF penalty?How does this change to the opportunity attack rule impact combat?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








22












$begingroup$


I play D&D 3.5 with a group of folks. One of the rules they use in combat allows Alice, on Alice's turn, to ask Bob to yield his space to Alice. Bob chooses a space to move to, Alice moves into Bob's space.



I've tried to find a source for this rule and I've been unable to. I've looked in the PHB, the DMG, the Rules Compendium, the SRD, and I'm not finding anything. I have a strong suspicion that this may be a houserule that they've played with so long that it's just part of the game for them. I've never heard of anything like this and would like some input on where this rule might have come from. Does anyone know of anything like this in a splat, is it from another game?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Have the players codified this rule or do they handwave it, saying something like, "It must exist somewhere because we've used it for so long!" Can a creature yield space off-turn even if the creature on its turn took a 5-ft. step or a move action? Can a creature yield space even when the creature isn't asked to by a PC whose turn it is? Can NPCs likewise yield space? (Sorry for So! Many! Questions! It's just that such a rule would drive me to madness!) Thank you for participating and have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 14 at 15:32


















22












$begingroup$


I play D&D 3.5 with a group of folks. One of the rules they use in combat allows Alice, on Alice's turn, to ask Bob to yield his space to Alice. Bob chooses a space to move to, Alice moves into Bob's space.



I've tried to find a source for this rule and I've been unable to. I've looked in the PHB, the DMG, the Rules Compendium, the SRD, and I'm not finding anything. I have a strong suspicion that this may be a houserule that they've played with so long that it's just part of the game for them. I've never heard of anything like this and would like some input on where this rule might have come from. Does anyone know of anything like this in a splat, is it from another game?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Have the players codified this rule or do they handwave it, saying something like, "It must exist somewhere because we've used it for so long!" Can a creature yield space off-turn even if the creature on its turn took a 5-ft. step or a move action? Can a creature yield space even when the creature isn't asked to by a PC whose turn it is? Can NPCs likewise yield space? (Sorry for So! Many! Questions! It's just that such a rule would drive me to madness!) Thank you for participating and have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 14 at 15:32














22












22








22





$begingroup$


I play D&D 3.5 with a group of folks. One of the rules they use in combat allows Alice, on Alice's turn, to ask Bob to yield his space to Alice. Bob chooses a space to move to, Alice moves into Bob's space.



I've tried to find a source for this rule and I've been unable to. I've looked in the PHB, the DMG, the Rules Compendium, the SRD, and I'm not finding anything. I have a strong suspicion that this may be a houserule that they've played with so long that it's just part of the game for them. I've never heard of anything like this and would like some input on where this rule might have come from. Does anyone know of anything like this in a splat, is it from another game?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I play D&D 3.5 with a group of folks. One of the rules they use in combat allows Alice, on Alice's turn, to ask Bob to yield his space to Alice. Bob chooses a space to move to, Alice moves into Bob's space.



I've tried to find a source for this rule and I've been unable to. I've looked in the PHB, the DMG, the Rules Compendium, the SRD, and I'm not finding anything. I have a strong suspicion that this may be a houserule that they've played with so long that it's just part of the game for them. I've never heard of anything like this and would like some input on where this rule might have come from. Does anyone know of anything like this in a splat, is it from another game?







dnd-3.5e combat movement content-identification






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited May 14 at 21:42









V2Blast

29.7k5106179




29.7k5106179










asked May 14 at 15:25









ChrisChris

1136




1136







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Have the players codified this rule or do they handwave it, saying something like, "It must exist somewhere because we've used it for so long!" Can a creature yield space off-turn even if the creature on its turn took a 5-ft. step or a move action? Can a creature yield space even when the creature isn't asked to by a PC whose turn it is? Can NPCs likewise yield space? (Sorry for So! Many! Questions! It's just that such a rule would drive me to madness!) Thank you for participating and have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 14 at 15:32













  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Have the players codified this rule or do they handwave it, saying something like, "It must exist somewhere because we've used it for so long!" Can a creature yield space off-turn even if the creature on its turn took a 5-ft. step or a move action? Can a creature yield space even when the creature isn't asked to by a PC whose turn it is? Can NPCs likewise yield space? (Sorry for So! Many! Questions! It's just that such a rule would drive me to madness!) Thank you for participating and have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 14 at 15:32








2




2




$begingroup$
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Have the players codified this rule or do they handwave it, saying something like, "It must exist somewhere because we've used it for so long!" Can a creature yield space off-turn even if the creature on its turn took a 5-ft. step or a move action? Can a creature yield space even when the creature isn't asked to by a PC whose turn it is? Can NPCs likewise yield space? (Sorry for So! Many! Questions! It's just that such a rule would drive me to madness!) Thank you for participating and have fun!
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
May 14 at 15:32





$begingroup$
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Have the players codified this rule or do they handwave it, saying something like, "It must exist somewhere because we've used it for so long!" Can a creature yield space off-turn even if the creature on its turn took a 5-ft. step or a move action? Can a creature yield space even when the creature isn't asked to by a PC whose turn it is? Can NPCs likewise yield space? (Sorry for So! Many! Questions! It's just that such a rule would drive me to madness!) Thank you for participating and have fun!
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
May 14 at 15:32











4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















30












$begingroup$

It does not exist in the official rules. It’s impossible to prove a negative, but I am absolutely confident on this. The word “yield” is not used much at all in the core rules, and even then it’s used for three divinations to describe what information the spell yields, the discussion of a variant rule for summon monster spells, and for tracking, describing soft ground as one that “yields to pressure.” Furthermore, the core rules for acting in combat make no mention of an ability to vacate your space outside your turn.



The rules do specify that friendly creatures can pass through each other’s spaces, but they don’t generally allow you to stop on a square held by an ally. And that ally definitely cannot move into a different square as part of their ally’s movement.



Overall, though, I feel fairly positive about this house rule, at least at first glance. It enables defender types to interpose themselves between enemies and squishy allies, when normally it is extremely difficult to do that. Improving the effectiveness of that role would be good for 3.5e, I think. I have not really thought through all the ramifications, much less playtested it, though. As noted in Chris Morris’s comment and Ryan_L’s answer, care should be made to ensure that this process cannot be done infinitely, or else a character could move an infinite distance by yielding their space to each ally in an infinite line of allies. Ben Bardin’s comment that this could also allow two characters to yield back and forth to attack someone who otherwise could only be attacked by one due to a chokepoint is worth considering, too, though I’m not totally convinced that’s a bad thing per se.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    May 14 at 20:12







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
    $endgroup$
    – Two-Bit Alchemist
    May 14 at 20:25










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 14 at 23:28






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
    $endgroup$
    – trlkly
    May 15 at 2:40







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
    $endgroup$
    – Chris Morris
    May 15 at 10:44


















4












$begingroup$

Your playgroup probably hasn't implemented the emergent rule that free actions can only be taken on one's turn



So, most playgroups play with this rule where free actions can only be done on your turn. That's not explicitly stated anywhere, but there are some general passages that seem to sort-of imply it and Wizards of the Coast, the publishing company, said in an old blog post I can no longer find but which is referenced here both that free actions should not be allowed off-turn and that the implication of the general introduction to actions that all actions, including free action, happen only during your turn was, in fact, intended.



However, many groups exist that are unaware of this weird once-posted-about-in-a-blog-but-never-errataed pseudo-rule and, especially if the game sticks pretty close to the core material, allowing free actions off-turn is rarely a problem.



One immediately visible consequence of allowing off-turn free actions is off-turn 5' steps. If a character does not otherwise move any actual distance and isn't in difficult terrain, they can take a 5-foot step without provoking an attack of opportunity, pretty much whenever. How this works out in gameplay is pretty much what you are descibing:




"Hey, Fighter Bob, can you move? I wanna cast burning hands"

"Sure, Wizard Joan" (takes 5' step to an open spot after Joan enters their space but before Joan counts as having 'stopped moving')




Note, however, that Joan couldn't subsequently yield their space to another character in the same round, having already moved, nor could Bob, having already taken a 5' step, without a particularly lenient GM.




Also off-turn free-actions can be a problem in that they can be used by certain builds to do crazy stuff that might be described as breaking the game. But 3.5 isn't exactly a perfectly balanced game anyways and if it's working for your group currently I wouldn't worry about it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    May 15 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 11:55











  • $begingroup$
    This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:46











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:41










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:47


















2












$begingroup$

There's a problem if you have a lot of characters adjacent in a line. It seems that, with careful attention paid to initiative, you could use this to get one character to move arbitrarily far in one turn.



Consider if you have 26 characters, adjacent and sorted by initiative such that the character at the leftmost end of the line goes last, but everyone to the right of him goes in order from left to right. Character B goes first, takes A's place. A decides to take B's old place. C takes one step left, takes A's place. A takes C's old place, repeat until you're out of characters. A has now moved 25 spaces for free, and still gets his turn.



To fix this, I would just add that any movement you do like this costs movement on your next turn, and you can't go below 0.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    May 15 at 6:24










  • $begingroup$
    This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:48











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 20:54



















0












$begingroup$

Not exactly, but you can take a 5-foot-step when it's not your turn.



"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." -- SRD



Since a 5-foot-step is a nonaction, just like Attacks of Opportunity are nonactions, you should be able to take a 5ft-step outside your turn. As quoted above, 5ft-steps and "other kind[s] of movement" are mutualy exclusive, and 5ft-steps are once per round. A round is composed of one turn each, in order of initiative. Logically, this means that taking a 5-foot-step on a higher initiative(1) than your own prohibits you from making "other […] movement". I suspect the designers of d&d never thought that far.



(I haven't looked in the rules compendium yet, so I don't know if it changes things)



tl; dr:



No, but you can take a 5-foot-step during any round that you don't otherwise move around.



(1): You might be able to take a 5ft-step during an initiative when there's no turn, or somesuch. Ask your resident RAW expert.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:43











Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f148025%2fdoes-this-yield-your-space-to-an-ally-rule-my-3-5-group-uses-appear-anywhere-i%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes








4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









30












$begingroup$

It does not exist in the official rules. It’s impossible to prove a negative, but I am absolutely confident on this. The word “yield” is not used much at all in the core rules, and even then it’s used for three divinations to describe what information the spell yields, the discussion of a variant rule for summon monster spells, and for tracking, describing soft ground as one that “yields to pressure.” Furthermore, the core rules for acting in combat make no mention of an ability to vacate your space outside your turn.



The rules do specify that friendly creatures can pass through each other’s spaces, but they don’t generally allow you to stop on a square held by an ally. And that ally definitely cannot move into a different square as part of their ally’s movement.



Overall, though, I feel fairly positive about this house rule, at least at first glance. It enables defender types to interpose themselves between enemies and squishy allies, when normally it is extremely difficult to do that. Improving the effectiveness of that role would be good for 3.5e, I think. I have not really thought through all the ramifications, much less playtested it, though. As noted in Chris Morris’s comment and Ryan_L’s answer, care should be made to ensure that this process cannot be done infinitely, or else a character could move an infinite distance by yielding their space to each ally in an infinite line of allies. Ben Bardin’s comment that this could also allow two characters to yield back and forth to attack someone who otherwise could only be attacked by one due to a chokepoint is worth considering, too, though I’m not totally convinced that’s a bad thing per se.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    May 14 at 20:12







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
    $endgroup$
    – Two-Bit Alchemist
    May 14 at 20:25










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 14 at 23:28






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
    $endgroup$
    – trlkly
    May 15 at 2:40







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
    $endgroup$
    – Chris Morris
    May 15 at 10:44















30












$begingroup$

It does not exist in the official rules. It’s impossible to prove a negative, but I am absolutely confident on this. The word “yield” is not used much at all in the core rules, and even then it’s used for three divinations to describe what information the spell yields, the discussion of a variant rule for summon monster spells, and for tracking, describing soft ground as one that “yields to pressure.” Furthermore, the core rules for acting in combat make no mention of an ability to vacate your space outside your turn.



The rules do specify that friendly creatures can pass through each other’s spaces, but they don’t generally allow you to stop on a square held by an ally. And that ally definitely cannot move into a different square as part of their ally’s movement.



Overall, though, I feel fairly positive about this house rule, at least at first glance. It enables defender types to interpose themselves between enemies and squishy allies, when normally it is extremely difficult to do that. Improving the effectiveness of that role would be good for 3.5e, I think. I have not really thought through all the ramifications, much less playtested it, though. As noted in Chris Morris’s comment and Ryan_L’s answer, care should be made to ensure that this process cannot be done infinitely, or else a character could move an infinite distance by yielding their space to each ally in an infinite line of allies. Ben Bardin’s comment that this could also allow two characters to yield back and forth to attack someone who otherwise could only be attacked by one due to a chokepoint is worth considering, too, though I’m not totally convinced that’s a bad thing per se.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    May 14 at 20:12







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
    $endgroup$
    – Two-Bit Alchemist
    May 14 at 20:25










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 14 at 23:28






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
    $endgroup$
    – trlkly
    May 15 at 2:40







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
    $endgroup$
    – Chris Morris
    May 15 at 10:44













30












30








30





$begingroup$

It does not exist in the official rules. It’s impossible to prove a negative, but I am absolutely confident on this. The word “yield” is not used much at all in the core rules, and even then it’s used for three divinations to describe what information the spell yields, the discussion of a variant rule for summon monster spells, and for tracking, describing soft ground as one that “yields to pressure.” Furthermore, the core rules for acting in combat make no mention of an ability to vacate your space outside your turn.



The rules do specify that friendly creatures can pass through each other’s spaces, but they don’t generally allow you to stop on a square held by an ally. And that ally definitely cannot move into a different square as part of their ally’s movement.



Overall, though, I feel fairly positive about this house rule, at least at first glance. It enables defender types to interpose themselves between enemies and squishy allies, when normally it is extremely difficult to do that. Improving the effectiveness of that role would be good for 3.5e, I think. I have not really thought through all the ramifications, much less playtested it, though. As noted in Chris Morris’s comment and Ryan_L’s answer, care should be made to ensure that this process cannot be done infinitely, or else a character could move an infinite distance by yielding their space to each ally in an infinite line of allies. Ben Bardin’s comment that this could also allow two characters to yield back and forth to attack someone who otherwise could only be attacked by one due to a chokepoint is worth considering, too, though I’m not totally convinced that’s a bad thing per se.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



It does not exist in the official rules. It’s impossible to prove a negative, but I am absolutely confident on this. The word “yield” is not used much at all in the core rules, and even then it’s used for three divinations to describe what information the spell yields, the discussion of a variant rule for summon monster spells, and for tracking, describing soft ground as one that “yields to pressure.” Furthermore, the core rules for acting in combat make no mention of an ability to vacate your space outside your turn.



The rules do specify that friendly creatures can pass through each other’s spaces, but they don’t generally allow you to stop on a square held by an ally. And that ally definitely cannot move into a different square as part of their ally’s movement.



Overall, though, I feel fairly positive about this house rule, at least at first glance. It enables defender types to interpose themselves between enemies and squishy allies, when normally it is extremely difficult to do that. Improving the effectiveness of that role would be good for 3.5e, I think. I have not really thought through all the ramifications, much less playtested it, though. As noted in Chris Morris’s comment and Ryan_L’s answer, care should be made to ensure that this process cannot be done infinitely, or else a character could move an infinite distance by yielding their space to each ally in an infinite line of allies. Ben Bardin’s comment that this could also allow two characters to yield back and forth to attack someone who otherwise could only be attacked by one due to a chokepoint is worth considering, too, though I’m not totally convinced that’s a bad thing per se.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited May 16 at 13:57

























answered May 14 at 15:33









KRyanKRyan

227k32568971




227k32568971











  • $begingroup$
    might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    May 14 at 20:12







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
    $endgroup$
    – Two-Bit Alchemist
    May 14 at 20:25










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 14 at 23:28






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
    $endgroup$
    – trlkly
    May 15 at 2:40







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
    $endgroup$
    – Chris Morris
    May 15 at 10:44
















  • $begingroup$
    might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    May 14 at 20:12







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
    $endgroup$
    – Two-Bit Alchemist
    May 14 at 20:25










  • $begingroup$
    @BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 14 at 23:28






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
    $endgroup$
    – trlkly
    May 15 at 2:40







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
    $endgroup$
    – Chris Morris
    May 15 at 10:44















$begingroup$
might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
May 14 at 20:12





$begingroup$
might depend on what kind of action it requires. If it doesn't interfere with the full-round action on both sides, then it lets you fit more full attack chains into the same frontage (in constrained space) by constantly yielding space back and forth. If you line up your turns right, it even lets a squishy melee character step in, unload, and then yield the space back before they can be attacked. This isn't the sort of "breaks the game utterly at high levels" cheese that you see some places, but it could be pretty significant at low levels, or with an appropriately restricted set of classes.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
May 14 at 20:12





1




1




$begingroup$
I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
$endgroup$
– Two-Bit Alchemist
May 14 at 20:25




$begingroup$
I would at least consider requiring the displacing character (i.e. the character whose turn it is) to spend an additional 5 feet of movement to displace their companion and further require that companions can't be displaced to anything but an adjacent square. It's not clear how this works with difficult terrain from just what's presented here.
$endgroup$
– Two-Bit Alchemist
May 14 at 20:25












$begingroup$
@BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 14 at 23:28




$begingroup$
@BenBarden Perhaps, though I’m not sure it would be a bad thing. But yeah, I suppose I was imagining it requiring more than a 5-ft step to do.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 14 at 23:28




1




1




$begingroup$
This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
$endgroup$
– trlkly
May 15 at 2:40





$begingroup$
This is actually a case where proving a negative is not impossible. You have a finite search space, and thus could perform an exhaustive search. In other words, you could actually check every single official D&D 3.5 source book for this rule. More practically, you could get close to a proof by addressing the places where you would expect to find such a rule, and show it isn't there. Like, for example, the place(s) where it is established you can't stop on a friendly creature's square. Seems it would be important to give an exception if one exists.
$endgroup$
– trlkly
May 15 at 2:40





2




2




$begingroup$
Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
$endgroup$
– Chris Morris
May 15 at 10:44




$begingroup$
Its the movement version of the peasant Railgun. I'm therefore all for this house rule for the use of firing Dwarves at enemy fortifications at Mach 5.
$endgroup$
– Chris Morris
May 15 at 10:44













4












$begingroup$

Your playgroup probably hasn't implemented the emergent rule that free actions can only be taken on one's turn



So, most playgroups play with this rule where free actions can only be done on your turn. That's not explicitly stated anywhere, but there are some general passages that seem to sort-of imply it and Wizards of the Coast, the publishing company, said in an old blog post I can no longer find but which is referenced here both that free actions should not be allowed off-turn and that the implication of the general introduction to actions that all actions, including free action, happen only during your turn was, in fact, intended.



However, many groups exist that are unaware of this weird once-posted-about-in-a-blog-but-never-errataed pseudo-rule and, especially if the game sticks pretty close to the core material, allowing free actions off-turn is rarely a problem.



One immediately visible consequence of allowing off-turn free actions is off-turn 5' steps. If a character does not otherwise move any actual distance and isn't in difficult terrain, they can take a 5-foot step without provoking an attack of opportunity, pretty much whenever. How this works out in gameplay is pretty much what you are descibing:




"Hey, Fighter Bob, can you move? I wanna cast burning hands"

"Sure, Wizard Joan" (takes 5' step to an open spot after Joan enters their space but before Joan counts as having 'stopped moving')




Note, however, that Joan couldn't subsequently yield their space to another character in the same round, having already moved, nor could Bob, having already taken a 5' step, without a particularly lenient GM.




Also off-turn free-actions can be a problem in that they can be used by certain builds to do crazy stuff that might be described as breaking the game. But 3.5 isn't exactly a perfectly balanced game anyways and if it's working for your group currently I wouldn't worry about it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    May 15 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 11:55











  • $begingroup$
    This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:46











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:41










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:47















4












$begingroup$

Your playgroup probably hasn't implemented the emergent rule that free actions can only be taken on one's turn



So, most playgroups play with this rule where free actions can only be done on your turn. That's not explicitly stated anywhere, but there are some general passages that seem to sort-of imply it and Wizards of the Coast, the publishing company, said in an old blog post I can no longer find but which is referenced here both that free actions should not be allowed off-turn and that the implication of the general introduction to actions that all actions, including free action, happen only during your turn was, in fact, intended.



However, many groups exist that are unaware of this weird once-posted-about-in-a-blog-but-never-errataed pseudo-rule and, especially if the game sticks pretty close to the core material, allowing free actions off-turn is rarely a problem.



One immediately visible consequence of allowing off-turn free actions is off-turn 5' steps. If a character does not otherwise move any actual distance and isn't in difficult terrain, they can take a 5-foot step without provoking an attack of opportunity, pretty much whenever. How this works out in gameplay is pretty much what you are descibing:




"Hey, Fighter Bob, can you move? I wanna cast burning hands"

"Sure, Wizard Joan" (takes 5' step to an open spot after Joan enters their space but before Joan counts as having 'stopped moving')




Note, however, that Joan couldn't subsequently yield their space to another character in the same round, having already moved, nor could Bob, having already taken a 5' step, without a particularly lenient GM.




Also off-turn free-actions can be a problem in that they can be used by certain builds to do crazy stuff that might be described as breaking the game. But 3.5 isn't exactly a perfectly balanced game anyways and if it's working for your group currently I wouldn't worry about it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    May 15 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 11:55











  • $begingroup$
    This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:46











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:41










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:47













4












4








4





$begingroup$

Your playgroup probably hasn't implemented the emergent rule that free actions can only be taken on one's turn



So, most playgroups play with this rule where free actions can only be done on your turn. That's not explicitly stated anywhere, but there are some general passages that seem to sort-of imply it and Wizards of the Coast, the publishing company, said in an old blog post I can no longer find but which is referenced here both that free actions should not be allowed off-turn and that the implication of the general introduction to actions that all actions, including free action, happen only during your turn was, in fact, intended.



However, many groups exist that are unaware of this weird once-posted-about-in-a-blog-but-never-errataed pseudo-rule and, especially if the game sticks pretty close to the core material, allowing free actions off-turn is rarely a problem.



One immediately visible consequence of allowing off-turn free actions is off-turn 5' steps. If a character does not otherwise move any actual distance and isn't in difficult terrain, they can take a 5-foot step without provoking an attack of opportunity, pretty much whenever. How this works out in gameplay is pretty much what you are descibing:




"Hey, Fighter Bob, can you move? I wanna cast burning hands"

"Sure, Wizard Joan" (takes 5' step to an open spot after Joan enters their space but before Joan counts as having 'stopped moving')




Note, however, that Joan couldn't subsequently yield their space to another character in the same round, having already moved, nor could Bob, having already taken a 5' step, without a particularly lenient GM.




Also off-turn free-actions can be a problem in that they can be used by certain builds to do crazy stuff that might be described as breaking the game. But 3.5 isn't exactly a perfectly balanced game anyways and if it's working for your group currently I wouldn't worry about it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Your playgroup probably hasn't implemented the emergent rule that free actions can only be taken on one's turn



So, most playgroups play with this rule where free actions can only be done on your turn. That's not explicitly stated anywhere, but there are some general passages that seem to sort-of imply it and Wizards of the Coast, the publishing company, said in an old blog post I can no longer find but which is referenced here both that free actions should not be allowed off-turn and that the implication of the general introduction to actions that all actions, including free action, happen only during your turn was, in fact, intended.



However, many groups exist that are unaware of this weird once-posted-about-in-a-blog-but-never-errataed pseudo-rule and, especially if the game sticks pretty close to the core material, allowing free actions off-turn is rarely a problem.



One immediately visible consequence of allowing off-turn free actions is off-turn 5' steps. If a character does not otherwise move any actual distance and isn't in difficult terrain, they can take a 5-foot step without provoking an attack of opportunity, pretty much whenever. How this works out in gameplay is pretty much what you are descibing:




"Hey, Fighter Bob, can you move? I wanna cast burning hands"

"Sure, Wizard Joan" (takes 5' step to an open spot after Joan enters their space but before Joan counts as having 'stopped moving')




Note, however, that Joan couldn't subsequently yield their space to another character in the same round, having already moved, nor could Bob, having already taken a 5' step, without a particularly lenient GM.




Also off-turn free-actions can be a problem in that they can be used by certain builds to do crazy stuff that might be described as breaking the game. But 3.5 isn't exactly a perfectly balanced game anyways and if it's working for your group currently I wouldn't worry about it.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered May 15 at 4:36









the dark wandererthe dark wanderer

39.2k4102208




39.2k4102208











  • $begingroup$
    Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    May 15 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 11:55











  • $begingroup$
    This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:46











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:41










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:47
















  • $begingroup$
    Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    May 15 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 11:55











  • $begingroup$
    This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:46











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:41










  • $begingroup$
    @IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
    $endgroup$
    – the dark wanderer
    May 15 at 16:47















$begingroup$
Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
May 15 at 8:39




$begingroup$
Just out of curiosity, do you know if any of the "crazy stuff" specifically involves off-turn 5' steps?
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
May 15 at 8:39












$begingroup$
@IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
May 15 at 11:55





$begingroup$
@IlmariKaronen It depends on how the timing of off-turn 5-ft. steps work and if the attacker can change his actions in light of the defender making an off-turn 5-ft. step. Never allowing an attacker that must make a 5-ft. step to reach a defender to make a full attack (because, in response, the defender 5-ft. steps away from the attacker) would be one crazy thing, for example.
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
May 15 at 11:55













$begingroup$
This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 13:46





$begingroup$
This is simply wrong. Nothing says “you cannot take free actions outside your turn,” because they don’t need to: free actions are defined as things you can do during your turn to begin with, and the definition of free actions references a DM-imposed limit to the number of free actions “you can perform in a turn.” Indeed, the default rule established at the beginning of the Actions in Combat section is “When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions.” Anything otherwise needs an exception, e.g. talking, immediate, AoO
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 13:46













$begingroup$
@KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
May 15 at 16:41




$begingroup$
@KRyan Just because an interpretation seems, upon thorough investigation with a background in reading this system's rules, to be incorrect doesn't mean that interpretation is not a natural or common one. I've encountered several pick-up groups in my area that play with this interpretation. I'm not arguing that it is the right interpretation, just that it's not explicitly mentioned and not an unusual ruling and, when done this way, commonly leads to the situation in the question.
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
May 15 at 16:41












$begingroup$
@IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
May 15 at 16:47




$begingroup$
@IlmariKaronen Not in my experience. These groups tend to let the character whose action in interrupted change what they are doing afterwards, which fixes most of the problems. There's an issue with creatures with multiple attacks where it seems like after the first attack is made 5' stepping away would render them unable to continue attacking unless they also have a 5' step but I haven't seen that come up except once (The GM just ruled the creature, having "extra" movement left over from its move action, could close the gap again, essentially granting the creature for free in this one case
$endgroup$
– the dark wanderer
May 15 at 16:47











2












$begingroup$

There's a problem if you have a lot of characters adjacent in a line. It seems that, with careful attention paid to initiative, you could use this to get one character to move arbitrarily far in one turn.



Consider if you have 26 characters, adjacent and sorted by initiative such that the character at the leftmost end of the line goes last, but everyone to the right of him goes in order from left to right. Character B goes first, takes A's place. A decides to take B's old place. C takes one step left, takes A's place. A takes C's old place, repeat until you're out of characters. A has now moved 25 spaces for free, and still gets his turn.



To fix this, I would just add that any movement you do like this costs movement on your next turn, and you can't go below 0.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    May 15 at 6:24










  • $begingroup$
    This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:48











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 20:54
















2












$begingroup$

There's a problem if you have a lot of characters adjacent in a line. It seems that, with careful attention paid to initiative, you could use this to get one character to move arbitrarily far in one turn.



Consider if you have 26 characters, adjacent and sorted by initiative such that the character at the leftmost end of the line goes last, but everyone to the right of him goes in order from left to right. Character B goes first, takes A's place. A decides to take B's old place. C takes one step left, takes A's place. A takes C's old place, repeat until you're out of characters. A has now moved 25 spaces for free, and still gets his turn.



To fix this, I would just add that any movement you do like this costs movement on your next turn, and you can't go below 0.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    May 15 at 6:24










  • $begingroup$
    This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:48











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 20:54














2












2








2





$begingroup$

There's a problem if you have a lot of characters adjacent in a line. It seems that, with careful attention paid to initiative, you could use this to get one character to move arbitrarily far in one turn.



Consider if you have 26 characters, adjacent and sorted by initiative such that the character at the leftmost end of the line goes last, but everyone to the right of him goes in order from left to right. Character B goes first, takes A's place. A decides to take B's old place. C takes one step left, takes A's place. A takes C's old place, repeat until you're out of characters. A has now moved 25 spaces for free, and still gets his turn.



To fix this, I would just add that any movement you do like this costs movement on your next turn, and you can't go below 0.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



There's a problem if you have a lot of characters adjacent in a line. It seems that, with careful attention paid to initiative, you could use this to get one character to move arbitrarily far in one turn.



Consider if you have 26 characters, adjacent and sorted by initiative such that the character at the leftmost end of the line goes last, but everyone to the right of him goes in order from left to right. Character B goes first, takes A's place. A decides to take B's old place. C takes one step left, takes A's place. A takes C's old place, repeat until you're out of characters. A has now moved 25 spaces for free, and still gets his turn.



To fix this, I would just add that any movement you do like this costs movement on your next turn, and you can't go below 0.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered May 15 at 4:11









Ryan_LRyan_L

1292




1292











  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    May 15 at 6:24










  • $begingroup$
    This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:48











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 20:54

















  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    May 15 at 6:24










  • $begingroup$
    This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:48











  • $begingroup$
    @KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
    $endgroup$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    May 15 at 20:44










  • $begingroup$
    @HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 20:54
















$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
May 15 at 6:24




$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
$endgroup$
– Someone_Evil
May 15 at 6:24












$begingroup$
This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 13:48





$begingroup$
This is a legitimate concern about this houserule that I hadn’t considered. Note (as Chris Morris did on my answer) that there is an existing version of this kind of exploit known as the “peasant rail gun” since transferring an object from one creature to another is a free action.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 13:48













$begingroup$
@KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
May 15 at 20:44




$begingroup$
@KRyan Where do the rules describe how much time it takes for a creature to pass an object to another? And how much time it takes for a creature to accept such an object? And that acceptance can be done off-turn? (I thought this was a rules areas that stopped folks from using D&D 3.5 as a basketball simulator: You want to pass someone something? Drop it, and tell that someone to retrieve it!)
$endgroup$
– Hey I Can Chan
May 15 at 20:44












$begingroup$
@HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 20:54





$begingroup$
@HeyICanChan Ah, sorry, misremembered how it worked; the peasant railgun relies on readied actions. Which I guess could be used to execute this “yield” concept but doesn’t match how it is described.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 20:54












0












$begingroup$

Not exactly, but you can take a 5-foot-step when it's not your turn.



"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." -- SRD



Since a 5-foot-step is a nonaction, just like Attacks of Opportunity are nonactions, you should be able to take a 5ft-step outside your turn. As quoted above, 5ft-steps and "other kind[s] of movement" are mutualy exclusive, and 5ft-steps are once per round. A round is composed of one turn each, in order of initiative. Logically, this means that taking a 5-foot-step on a higher initiative(1) than your own prohibits you from making "other […] movement". I suspect the designers of d&d never thought that far.



(I haven't looked in the rules compendium yet, so I don't know if it changes things)



tl; dr:



No, but you can take a 5-foot-step during any round that you don't otherwise move around.



(1): You might be able to take a 5ft-step during an initiative when there's no turn, or somesuch. Ask your resident RAW expert.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:43















0












$begingroup$

Not exactly, but you can take a 5-foot-step when it's not your turn.



"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." -- SRD



Since a 5-foot-step is a nonaction, just like Attacks of Opportunity are nonactions, you should be able to take a 5ft-step outside your turn. As quoted above, 5ft-steps and "other kind[s] of movement" are mutualy exclusive, and 5ft-steps are once per round. A round is composed of one turn each, in order of initiative. Logically, this means that taking a 5-foot-step on a higher initiative(1) than your own prohibits you from making "other […] movement". I suspect the designers of d&d never thought that far.



(I haven't looked in the rules compendium yet, so I don't know if it changes things)



tl; dr:



No, but you can take a 5-foot-step during any round that you don't otherwise move around.



(1): You might be able to take a 5ft-step during an initiative when there's no turn, or somesuch. Ask your resident RAW expert.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:43













0












0








0





$begingroup$

Not exactly, but you can take a 5-foot-step when it's not your turn.



"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." -- SRD



Since a 5-foot-step is a nonaction, just like Attacks of Opportunity are nonactions, you should be able to take a 5ft-step outside your turn. As quoted above, 5ft-steps and "other kind[s] of movement" are mutualy exclusive, and 5ft-steps are once per round. A round is composed of one turn each, in order of initiative. Logically, this means that taking a 5-foot-step on a higher initiative(1) than your own prohibits you from making "other […] movement". I suspect the designers of d&d never thought that far.



(I haven't looked in the rules compendium yet, so I don't know if it changes things)



tl; dr:



No, but you can take a 5-foot-step during any round that you don't otherwise move around.



(1): You might be able to take a 5ft-step during an initiative when there's no turn, or somesuch. Ask your resident RAW expert.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Not exactly, but you can take a 5-foot-step when it's not your turn.



"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." -- SRD



Since a 5-foot-step is a nonaction, just like Attacks of Opportunity are nonactions, you should be able to take a 5ft-step outside your turn. As quoted above, 5ft-steps and "other kind[s] of movement" are mutualy exclusive, and 5ft-steps are once per round. A round is composed of one turn each, in order of initiative. Logically, this means that taking a 5-foot-step on a higher initiative(1) than your own prohibits you from making "other […] movement". I suspect the designers of d&d never thought that far.



(I haven't looked in the rules compendium yet, so I don't know if it changes things)



tl; dr:



No, but you can take a 5-foot-step during any round that you don't otherwise move around.



(1): You might be able to take a 5ft-step during an initiative when there's no turn, or somesuch. Ask your resident RAW expert.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited May 15 at 10:04









doppelgreener

32.8k11139231




32.8k11139231










answered May 15 at 9:40









sisima70sisima70

567




567











  • $begingroup$
    Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:43
















  • $begingroup$
    Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
    $endgroup$
    – KRyan
    May 15 at 13:43















$begingroup$
Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 13:43




$begingroup$
Sorry, but no: the definition of 5-foot step specifies that it is something you can do “before, during, or after your other actions in the round.” While you could make an argument that something that occurs outside your turn is either before your actions on your next turn, or after your actions on the previous turn, this particular phrasing would make no sense in this context if that were the intended rule.
$endgroup$
– KRyan
May 15 at 13:43

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f148025%2fdoes-this-yield-your-space-to-an-ally-rule-my-3-5-group-uses-appear-anywhere-i%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Club Baloncesto Breogán Índice Historia | Pavillón | Nome | O Breogán na cultura popular | Xogadores | Adestradores | Presidentes | Palmarés | Historial | Líderes | Notas | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegacióncbbreogan.galCadroGuía oficial da ACB 2009-10, páxina 201Guía oficial ACB 1992, páxina 183. Editorial DB.É de 6.500 espectadores sentados axeitándose á última normativa"Estudiantes Junior, entre as mellores canteiras"o orixinalHemeroteca El Mundo Deportivo, 16 setembro de 1970, páxina 12Historia do BreogánAlfredo Pérez, o último canoneiroHistoria C.B. BreogánHemeroteca de El Mundo DeportivoJimmy Wright, norteamericano do Breogán deixará Lugo por ameazas de morteResultados de Breogán en 1986-87Resultados de Breogán en 1990-91Ficha de Velimir Perasović en acb.comResultados de Breogán en 1994-95Breogán arrasa al Barça. "El Mundo Deportivo", 27 de setembro de 1999, páxina 58CB Breogán - FC BarcelonaA FEB invita a participar nunha nova Liga EuropeaCharlie Bell na prensa estatalMáximos anotadores 2005Tempada 2005-06 : Tódolos Xogadores da Xornada""Non quero pensar nunha man negra, mais pregúntome que está a pasar""o orixinalRaúl López, orgulloso dos xogadores, presume da boa saúde económica do BreogánJulio González confirma que cesa como presidente del BreogánHomenaxe a Lisardo GómezA tempada do rexurdimento celesteEntrevista a Lisardo GómezEl COB dinamita el Pazo para forzar el quinto (69-73)Cafés Candelas, patrocinador del CB Breogán"Suso Lázare, novo presidente do Breogán"o orixinalCafés Candelas Breogán firma el mayor triunfo de la historiaEl Breogán realizará 17 homenajes por su cincuenta aniversario"O Breogán honra ao seu fundador e primeiro presidente"o orixinalMiguel Giao recibiu a homenaxe do PazoHomenaxe aos primeiros gladiadores celestesO home que nos amosa como ver o Breo co corazónTita Franco será homenaxeada polos #50anosdeBreoJulio Vila recibirá unha homenaxe in memoriam polos #50anosdeBreo"O Breogán homenaxeará aos seus aboados máis veteráns"Pechada ovación a «Capi» Sanmartín e Ricardo «Corazón de González»Homenaxe por décadas de informaciónPaco García volve ao Pazo con motivo do 50 aniversario"Resultados y clasificaciones""O Cafés Candelas Breogán, campión da Copa Princesa""O Cafés Candelas Breogán, equipo ACB"C.B. Breogán"Proxecto social"o orixinal"Centros asociados"o orixinalFicha en imdb.comMario Camus trata la recuperación del amor en 'La vieja música', su última película"Páxina web oficial""Club Baloncesto Breogán""C. B. Breogán S.A.D."eehttp://www.fegaba.com

Vilaño, A Laracha Índice Patrimonio | Lugares e parroquias | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegación43°14′52″N 8°36′03″O / 43.24775, -8.60070

Cegueira Índice Epidemioloxía | Deficiencia visual | Tipos de cegueira | Principais causas de cegueira | Tratamento | Técnicas de adaptación e axudas | Vida dos cegos | Primeiros auxilios | Crenzas respecto das persoas cegas | Crenzas das persoas cegas | O neno deficiente visual | Aspectos psicolóxicos da cegueira | Notas | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegación54.054.154.436928256blindnessDicionario da Real Academia GalegaPortal das Palabras"International Standards: Visual Standards — Aspects and Ranges of Vision Loss with Emphasis on Population Surveys.""Visual impairment and blindness""Presentan un plan para previr a cegueira"o orixinalACCDV Associació Catalana de Cecs i Disminuïts Visuals - PMFTrachoma"Effect of gene therapy on visual function in Leber's congenital amaurosis"1844137110.1056/NEJMoa0802268Cans guía - os mellores amigos dos cegosArquivadoEscola de cans guía para cegos en Mortágua, PortugalArquivado"Tecnología para ciegos y deficientes visuales. Recopilación de recursos gratuitos en la Red""Colorino""‘COL.diesis’, escuchar los sonidos del color""COL.diesis: Transforming Colour into Melody and Implementing the Result in a Colour Sensor Device"o orixinal"Sistema de desarrollo de sinestesia color-sonido para invidentes utilizando un protocolo de audio""Enseñanza táctil - geometría y color. Juegos didácticos para niños ciegos y videntes""Sistema Constanz"L'ocupació laboral dels cecs a l'Estat espanyol està pràcticament equiparada a la de les persones amb visió, entrevista amb Pedro ZuritaONCE (Organización Nacional de Cegos de España)Prevención da cegueiraDescrición de deficiencias visuais (Disc@pnet)Braillín, un boneco atractivo para calquera neno, con ou sen discapacidade, que permite familiarizarse co sistema de escritura e lectura brailleAxudas Técnicas36838ID00897494007150-90057129528256DOID:1432HP:0000618D001766C10.597.751.941.162C97109C0155020