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Commensurability classes in groups


Conjugacy Classes in Finite GroupsGroups with 3 conjugacy classes and finite exponentInfinite groups with only 2 conjugacy classesGroups with finite automorphism groups.What kinds of groups are there where every (nontrivial) element has prime order?For general $n in Bbb N$ , how to determine all groups (both finite and infinite) having exactly $n$ conjugacy classes?Does there exist a verbally simple group, which is not characteristically simple?A question about groups, that are isomorphic to the automorphism groups of their cycle graphsDoes there exist an infinite non-abelian group, such that all its nontrivial proper subgroups are isomorphic to $C_infty$?Is there some sort of classification of all minimal non-cyclic groups?













1












$begingroup$


Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
$$a = a$$
$$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
$$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$



Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.




All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class




If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.



If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.



My question is:




What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?




What do I know about them:




Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$




Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.



Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:




Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?




The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    1












    $begingroup$


    Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
    $$a = a$$
    $$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
    $$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$



    Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.




    All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class




    If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.



    If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.



    My question is:




    What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?




    What do I know about them:




    Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$




    Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.



    Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:




    Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?




    The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      1












      1








      1


      2



      $begingroup$


      Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
      $$a = a$$
      $$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
      $$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$



      Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.




      All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class




      If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.



      If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.



      My question is:




      What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?




      What do I know about them:




      Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$




      Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.



      Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:




      Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?




      The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
      $$a = a$$
      $$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
      $$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$



      Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.




      All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class




      If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.



      If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.



      My question is:




      What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?




      What do I know about them:




      Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$




      Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.



      Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:




      Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?




      The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)







      abstract-algebra group-theory infinite-groups






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked May 5 at 7:14









      Yanior WegYanior Weg

      3,15331856




      3,15331856




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          4












          $begingroup$

          Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




















            2












            $begingroup$

            There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.



            The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.






            share|cite|improve this answer









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              2 Answers
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              4












              $begingroup$

              Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                4












                $begingroup$

                Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited May 5 at 9:54

























                  answered May 5 at 9:14







                  user555729




























                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.



                      The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.



                        The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          2












                          2








                          2





                          $begingroup$

                          There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.



                          The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.



                          The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered May 5 at 21:23









                          YCorYCor

                          9,1621130




                          9,1621130



























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