Commensurability classes in groupsConjugacy Classes in Finite GroupsGroups with 3 conjugacy classes and finite exponentInfinite groups with only 2 conjugacy classesGroups with finite automorphism groups.What kinds of groups are there where every (nontrivial) element has prime order?For general $n in Bbb N$ , how to determine all groups (both finite and infinite) having exactly $n$ conjugacy classes?Does there exist a verbally simple group, which is not characteristically simple?A question about groups, that are isomorphic to the automorphism groups of their cycle graphsDoes there exist an infinite non-abelian group, such that all its nontrivial proper subgroups are isomorphic to $C_infty$?Is there some sort of classification of all minimal non-cyclic groups?
Why can't I share a one use code with anyone else?
How does the Heat Metal spell interact with a follow-up Frostbite spell?
Why did nobody know who the Lord of this region was?
Why are lawsuits between the President and Congress not automatically sent to the Supreme Court
Usage of the relative pronoun "dont"
Resistor Selection to retain same brightness in LED PWM circuit
Was the dragon prowess intentionally downplayed in S08E04?
Why is the marginal distribution/marginal probability described as "marginal"?
Find the area of the rectangle
Why do galaxies collide?
Is there any deeper thematic meaning to the white horse that Arya finds in The Bells (S08E05)?
Why are there five extra turns in tournament Magic?
Roman Numerals Equation 2
How to deal with the extreme reverberation in big cathedrals when playing the pipe organs?
Would it be fair to use 1d30 (instead of rolling 2d20 and taking the higher die) for advantage rolls?
AD: OU for system administrator accounts
Why does Taylor’s series “work”?
Why would company (decision makers) wait for someone to retire, rather than lay them off, when their role is no longer needed?
A person lacking money who shows off a lot
Cycling to work - 30mile return
Failing students when it might cause them economic ruin
What would a Dragon have to exhale to cause rain?
How can I fix the label locations on my tikzcd diagram?
Polynomial division: Is this trick obvious?
Commensurability classes in groups
Conjugacy Classes in Finite GroupsGroups with 3 conjugacy classes and finite exponentInfinite groups with only 2 conjugacy classesGroups with finite automorphism groups.What kinds of groups are there where every (nontrivial) element has prime order?For general $n in Bbb N$ , how to determine all groups (both finite and infinite) having exactly $n$ conjugacy classes?Does there exist a verbally simple group, which is not characteristically simple?A question about groups, that are isomorphic to the automorphism groups of their cycle graphsDoes there exist an infinite non-abelian group, such that all its nontrivial proper subgroups are isomorphic to $C_infty$?Is there some sort of classification of all minimal non-cyclic groups?
$begingroup$
Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
$$a = a$$
$$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
$$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$
Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.
All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class
If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.
If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.
My question is:
What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?
What do I know about them:
Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$
Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.
Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:
Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?
The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)
abstract-algebra group-theory infinite-groups
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
$$a = a$$
$$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
$$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$
Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.
All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class
If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.
If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.
My question is:
What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?
What do I know about them:
Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$
Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.
Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:
Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?
The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)
abstract-algebra group-theory infinite-groups
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
$$a = a$$
$$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
$$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$
Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.
All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class
If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.
If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.
My question is:
What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?
What do I know about them:
Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$
Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.
Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:
Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?
The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)
abstract-algebra group-theory infinite-groups
$endgroup$
Suppose $G$ is a group. Let’s call $a, b in G$ commensurable, iff $exists m, n in mathbbZ setminus 0$, such that $a^n = b^m$. One can see, that commensurability is an equivalence relationship:
$$a = a$$
$$(a^n = b^m) to (b^m = a^n)$$
$$((a^n = b^m) cap (b^p = c^q)) to (a^np = c^mq)$$
Thus we can divide the elements of a group into commensurability classes.
All finite-order elements of a group form a commensurability class
If $a$ and $b$ are finite-order elements, then we can take $n$ and $m$ as their respective orders.
If $a^k = e$ and $a^n = b^m$, $b^mk = e$.
My question is:
What is the possible structure of commensurability classes of infinite-order elements?
What do I know about them:
Suppose, $a$ and $b$ are commensurable commuting infinite-order elements of $G$. Then $exists c in G$, such that $a, b in langle c rangle$
Suppose $a^n = b^m$. Then $c = a^q b^p$, where $p$ and $q$ are integers, such that $pn + qm = gcd(n, m)$.
Now an important question to which I do not know an answer is:
Does there exist a group that contains a pair of commensurable non-commuting infinite-order elements?
The negative answer to this question implies that all commensurability classes of infinite order elements are of the form $Q setminus e$, where $Q$ is a maximal locally cyclic subgroup of $G$. However, I do not know, how to prove that the answer is negative (or does such group actually exist?)
abstract-algebra group-theory infinite-groups
abstract-algebra group-theory infinite-groups
asked May 5 at 7:14
Yanior WegYanior Weg
3,15331856
3,15331856
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.
The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3214190%2fcommensurability-classes-in-groups%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.
$endgroup$
Consider the group $S(mathbb N)$ of all bijections of the set of natural numbers. Now consider the elements $(2,4,1,3)sigma$ and $(1,2,3,4)sigma$, where $sigma$ is any infinite-order bijection of $5,6,...$.
edited May 5 at 9:54
answered May 5 at 9:14
user555729
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.
The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.
The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.
The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.
$endgroup$
There are plenty of examples. For instance, for any $n,mge 2$, in the group with presentation $langle x,y|x^m=y^nrangle$, the elements $x,y$ have infinite order, do not commute, and are commensurate (I prefer "commensurate" to "commensurable" since there's no choice). (For $n=m=2$ this is the $pi_1$ of the Klein bottle). Idem, $x,y$ are commensurate in the Baumslag-Solitar group $langle t,x|tx^nt^-1=x^mrangle$ for $y=txt^-1$.
The first question "What is the possible structure of" seems too imprecise for an answer. Anyway there are many natural things one can do with this. For instance, that a class of some infinite order element is invariant under conjugation is an interesting property; this is called a commensurated infinite cyclic subgroup.
answered May 5 at 21:23
YCorYCor
9,1621130
9,1621130
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3214190%2fcommensurability-classes-in-groups%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown