When stealing something, do you need to roll both Stealth and Sleight of Hand checks?Can players declare that they are making a specific ability check?Do Sleight of Hand checks cover stealthiness?Is it possible to roll Stealth versus multiple targets when one or more can see you?Using skills in place of attacking - how can I contribute?Can you roll social skill-checks against other players?Does the armor-related disadvantage on Stealth checks apply when standing still?When Perception contests Stealth, how do you know which side gets advantage or disadvantage?Can you take 20 to use Sleight of Hand to hide a dagger?Can you use Sleight of Hand to steal something mid-combat?Does a creature need to roll Stealth check again if it moves?Do Sleight of Hand checks cover stealthiness?Do sorcerers' Subtle Spells require a skill check to be unseen?

How can I get my left hand to sound legato when I'm leaping?

UK - Working without a contract. I resign and guy wants to sue me

How can lift be less than thrust that is less than weight?

When two first person POV characters meet

How to maintain a closed environment for one person for a long period of time

Designing a magic-compatible polearm

What is appropriate short form for "laboratoires" in French?

Is there any proof that high saturation and contrast makes a picture more appealing in social media?

Cut the gold chain

Concurrent normals conjecture

Why isn't my calculation that we should be able to see the sun well beyond the observable universe valid?

Why is it recommended to mix yogurt starter with a small amount of milk before adding to the entire batch?

Dates on degrees don’t make sense – will people care?

Greeting with "Ho"

Am I legally required to provide a (GPL licensed) source code even after a project is abandoned?

How do I professionally let my manager know I'll quit over an issue?

How many people are necessary to maintain modern civilisation?

Why didn't the Cardassians take Terok Nor (Deep Space 9) with them when withdrawing from Bajor?

Do I have any obligations to my PhD supervisor's requests after I have graduated?

"Correct me if I'm wrong"

What is "industrial ethernet"?

RandomInteger with equal number of 1 and -1

Trainee keeps passing deadlines for independent learning

Hit the Bulls Eye with T in the Center



When stealing something, do you need to roll both Stealth and Sleight of Hand checks?


Can players declare that they are making a specific ability check?Do Sleight of Hand checks cover stealthiness?Is it possible to roll Stealth versus multiple targets when one or more can see you?Using skills in place of attacking - how can I contribute?Can you roll social skill-checks against other players?Does the armor-related disadvantage on Stealth checks apply when standing still?When Perception contests Stealth, how do you know which side gets advantage or disadvantage?Can you take 20 to use Sleight of Hand to hide a dagger?Can you use Sleight of Hand to steal something mid-combat?Does a creature need to roll Stealth check again if it moves?Do Sleight of Hand checks cover stealthiness?Do sorcerers' Subtle Spells require a skill check to be unseen?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








8












$begingroup$


Scenario: An Arcane Trickster casts disguise self to appear as a blind old man.



In a crowded room, his accomplice distracts the target, while the Arcane Trickster tries to steal his pouch of gold. As a DM, what would you have him roll?



I am trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a DM. He felt like I should roll a Stealth check followed by a Sleight of Hand check. I thought I should roll a Sleight of Hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Hello, SmarticusRex, and welcome to the RPG.stackexchange community! Kindly take the tour. This question, while an interesting one, is not very suitable for our format in its current form --- our Q&A format cannot handle opinion-based questions. You might get better and more diverse answers on an RPG forum. However, feel welcome to ask questions better suited for our format any time you like!
    $endgroup$
    – kviiri
    Jun 4 at 13:20










  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome. Please take the tour and see help center, especially "Asking" section. Asking for personal opinions are not allowed. You may ask for the rules that cover specific activity, you may ask how this should be resolved, but don't make it a pool or anything, please.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Jun 4 at 13:21






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I guess trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a dm. He felt like I should role a stealth check followed by a sleight of hand check. I thought I should role a sleight of hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.
    $endgroup$
    – SmarticusRex
    Jun 4 at 13:58







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related on Do sleight of hand checks cover stealthiness?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Jun 4 at 14:22

















8












$begingroup$


Scenario: An Arcane Trickster casts disguise self to appear as a blind old man.



In a crowded room, his accomplice distracts the target, while the Arcane Trickster tries to steal his pouch of gold. As a DM, what would you have him roll?



I am trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a DM. He felt like I should roll a Stealth check followed by a Sleight of Hand check. I thought I should roll a Sleight of Hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Hello, SmarticusRex, and welcome to the RPG.stackexchange community! Kindly take the tour. This question, while an interesting one, is not very suitable for our format in its current form --- our Q&A format cannot handle opinion-based questions. You might get better and more diverse answers on an RPG forum. However, feel welcome to ask questions better suited for our format any time you like!
    $endgroup$
    – kviiri
    Jun 4 at 13:20










  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome. Please take the tour and see help center, especially "Asking" section. Asking for personal opinions are not allowed. You may ask for the rules that cover specific activity, you may ask how this should be resolved, but don't make it a pool or anything, please.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Jun 4 at 13:21






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I guess trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a dm. He felt like I should role a stealth check followed by a sleight of hand check. I thought I should role a sleight of hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.
    $endgroup$
    – SmarticusRex
    Jun 4 at 13:58







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related on Do sleight of hand checks cover stealthiness?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Jun 4 at 14:22













8












8








8


0



$begingroup$


Scenario: An Arcane Trickster casts disguise self to appear as a blind old man.



In a crowded room, his accomplice distracts the target, while the Arcane Trickster tries to steal his pouch of gold. As a DM, what would you have him roll?



I am trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a DM. He felt like I should roll a Stealth check followed by a Sleight of Hand check. I thought I should roll a Sleight of Hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Scenario: An Arcane Trickster casts disguise self to appear as a blind old man.



In a crowded room, his accomplice distracts the target, while the Arcane Trickster tries to steal his pouch of gold. As a DM, what would you have him roll?



I am trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a DM. He felt like I should roll a Stealth check followed by a Sleight of Hand check. I thought I should roll a Sleight of Hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.







dnd-5e skills stealth






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jun 5 at 4:18









V2Blast

30.7k5115187




30.7k5115187










asked Jun 4 at 13:15









SmarticusRexSmarticusRex

411




411











  • $begingroup$
    Hello, SmarticusRex, and welcome to the RPG.stackexchange community! Kindly take the tour. This question, while an interesting one, is not very suitable for our format in its current form --- our Q&A format cannot handle opinion-based questions. You might get better and more diverse answers on an RPG forum. However, feel welcome to ask questions better suited for our format any time you like!
    $endgroup$
    – kviiri
    Jun 4 at 13:20










  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome. Please take the tour and see help center, especially "Asking" section. Asking for personal opinions are not allowed. You may ask for the rules that cover specific activity, you may ask how this should be resolved, but don't make it a pool or anything, please.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Jun 4 at 13:21






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I guess trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a dm. He felt like I should role a stealth check followed by a sleight of hand check. I thought I should role a sleight of hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.
    $endgroup$
    – SmarticusRex
    Jun 4 at 13:58







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related on Do sleight of hand checks cover stealthiness?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Jun 4 at 14:22
















  • $begingroup$
    Hello, SmarticusRex, and welcome to the RPG.stackexchange community! Kindly take the tour. This question, while an interesting one, is not very suitable for our format in its current form --- our Q&A format cannot handle opinion-based questions. You might get better and more diverse answers on an RPG forum. However, feel welcome to ask questions better suited for our format any time you like!
    $endgroup$
    – kviiri
    Jun 4 at 13:20










  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome. Please take the tour and see help center, especially "Asking" section. Asking for personal opinions are not allowed. You may ask for the rules that cover specific activity, you may ask how this should be resolved, but don't make it a pool or anything, please.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    Jun 4 at 13:21






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I guess trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a dm. He felt like I should role a stealth check followed by a sleight of hand check. I thought I should role a sleight of hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.
    $endgroup$
    – SmarticusRex
    Jun 4 at 13:58







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related on Do sleight of hand checks cover stealthiness?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Jun 4 at 14:22















$begingroup$
Hello, SmarticusRex, and welcome to the RPG.stackexchange community! Kindly take the tour. This question, while an interesting one, is not very suitable for our format in its current form --- our Q&A format cannot handle opinion-based questions. You might get better and more diverse answers on an RPG forum. However, feel welcome to ask questions better suited for our format any time you like!
$endgroup$
– kviiri
Jun 4 at 13:20




$begingroup$
Hello, SmarticusRex, and welcome to the RPG.stackexchange community! Kindly take the tour. This question, while an interesting one, is not very suitable for our format in its current form --- our Q&A format cannot handle opinion-based questions. You might get better and more diverse answers on an RPG forum. However, feel welcome to ask questions better suited for our format any time you like!
$endgroup$
– kviiri
Jun 4 at 13:20












$begingroup$
Hello and welcome. Please take the tour and see help center, especially "Asking" section. Asking for personal opinions are not allowed. You may ask for the rules that cover specific activity, you may ask how this should be resolved, but don't make it a pool or anything, please.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Jun 4 at 13:21




$begingroup$
Hello and welcome. Please take the tour and see help center, especially "Asking" section. Asking for personal opinions are not allowed. You may ask for the rules that cover specific activity, you may ask how this should be resolved, but don't make it a pool or anything, please.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
Jun 4 at 13:21




3




3




$begingroup$
I guess trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a dm. He felt like I should role a stealth check followed by a sleight of hand check. I thought I should role a sleight of hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.
$endgroup$
– SmarticusRex
Jun 4 at 13:58





$begingroup$
I guess trying to solve a minor disagreement between a player (me) and a dm. He felt like I should role a stealth check followed by a sleight of hand check. I thought I should role a sleight of hand check with advantage since I had gone to all the trouble to orchestrate the distraction with a party member and disguise myself.
$endgroup$
– SmarticusRex
Jun 4 at 13:58





5




5




$begingroup$
Related on Do sleight of hand checks cover stealthiness?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Jun 4 at 14:22




$begingroup$
Related on Do sleight of hand checks cover stealthiness?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Jun 4 at 14:22










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















13












$begingroup$

It's up to the DM



This is a series of events orchestrated by the party that may require one or more ability checks. In this scenario, what happens is described on page 174 of the PHB:




The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.




In general, the player will describe their attempted action, and the DM will then call for any roll(s) and what they are.



If your DM felt like it should play it one way, then that's way it plays out.



There were lots of ways this could have played out, but ultimately it's the DM's call as how they're going to adjudicate it.



There could have been:



  1. 2 rolls. One roll to for the distraction (Deception), one roll to steal (Sleight of Hand)

  2. 1 roll. Sleight of Hand (includes the sneaking) with advantage for working together.

  3. What your DM did may have been because in their mind, you did need to sneak up separately and this required a separate Stealth roll. This is also reasonable if they felt the circumstances required it.

  4. Any other option that the DM felt would tell a good story.





share|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    3












    $begingroup$

    The important factor, and one you do not mention in your question, is whether or not you were trying to hide or move sneakily at any point.



    Page 177 of the PHB says:




    Stealth. Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you attempt to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.




    IOW, check stealth when you are trying to either hide or you are trying to move without being noticed.



    If you were standing next to the target and the distraction was used to make people look away while you grabbed the pouch and then you just stood there looking nonchalant without trying to leave then I don't see how stealth could apply. You are standing in the open and not trying to sneak so there simply is no stealth involved. As a DM I would roll the checks to see if the mark and anybody close enough to notice the pickpocket were successfully distracted, then have you roll sleight of hand, giving advantage only if everybody was distracted.



    But if you were standing away from the target and used the distraction to move close, grab the money, then move back away from the target all without being seen then there is clearly a need for a stealth check to cover your movement to and from the mark. Even if a person does not see you actually taking the money, anybody who sees an old man quickly move up behind somebody then quickly move away is likely to be suspicious.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
      $endgroup$
      – SeriousBri
      Jun 5 at 10:51


















    -1












    $begingroup$

    No, you don’t need to roll



    Your DM could rule that, because of your creativity and roleplay, there doesn’t need to be an ability check. From the Dungeon Master’s Guide page 236:




    One approach is to use dice as rarely as possible. Some DMs use them only during combat, and determine success or failure as they like in other situations.
    With this approach, the DM decides whether an action or a plan succeeds or fails based on how well the player: make their case, how thorough or creative they are, or other factors. For example, the players might describe how they search for a secret door, detailing how they tap on a wall or twist a torch sconce to find its trigger. That could be enough to convince the DM that they find the secret door without having to make an ability check to do so.




    Theoretically, assuming your DM allowed for it, your character wouldn’t need to roll any dice because your roleplay is good enough and makes sense in the world.



    However, it seems that your DM wants some kind of roll



    Not all DM’s allow roleplay to replace ability checks in every situation. Either they might not like the concept if it, they may not be convinced enough to warrant it or they might not feel its appropriate for the current situation. Whatever the case, they want you to make a roll.



    I find that reducing the number of dice rolls makes the game more fluid. Additionally, the more you are made to roll, the higher the chance of failure is because you would have to pass both checks, which is statistically less likely than you only passing one or passing neither of them. If you are having to pass multiple checks, you are being set up to fail. This isn’t always a bad thing, sometimes a DM wants something to be a challenge, warranting multiple checks to succeed.



    The way I would rule it is that you don’t have to roll a stealth check, you aren’t trying to hide or be unseen - you’re wearing a disguise, you’re in plain sight. Now, people likely aren’t going to notice you (unless their passive perception is exceptionally high or your disguise is exceptionally poor) or pay attention to you as your disguise means you blend in, you don’t need to roll a stealth check. Additionally, because your target is distracted, they likely aren’t going to notice someone sneaking up behind them anyway, further reducing the need for a stealth check.



    However, I would make you roll a “sleight of hand” check (likely using Dexterity but I could see Charisma or Intelligence being possible alternatives) to see if you can successful pickpocket the target. I would grant advantage if your friend was distracting them based on the Working Together rule (though for it to apply, your friend’s player would need to describe how they are distracting your target, not just say “I distract him”).



    As a side note, there is also the idea of “passive stealth” which might apply. I don’t know too much about it so I can’t give many details. Essentially though, its the counterpart to passive perception, where you aren’t actively trying to be stealthy, you just naturally walk quietly and go unnoticed. Your DM might try using that for future checks to reduce the number of dice rolls, it also may mean you don’t know when you’ve failed a check until its too late, which could be interesting.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




















      -2












      $begingroup$

      I think the underlying issue here is a misunderstanding of some very basic rules of 5th edition D&D, namely, there's no such thing as a stealth check or a slight of hand check.



      5e, unlike previous editions, has no skill checks. It has Ability Checks. If a skill proficiency applies to the task at hand and the creature doing the task has proficiency with that skill, then they add their proficiency modifier to the Ability Check. Even in that case, it's still an Ability Check, not a skill check. So, understanding that subtle but important difference, the resolution of the situation becomes much clearer.



      The situation calls for an Ability Check. Which ability is the correct one for this Ability Check? Clearly Dexterity. The DM asks for a (single) Dexterity Check. But wait, what about my skills? The DM can pick one or more skill proficiencies that apply, and if you have proficiency in any one of the skills that apply, you add your proficiency modifier to the roll.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "122"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader:
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        ,
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );













        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f149274%2fwhen-stealing-something-do-you-need-to-roll-both-stealth-and-sleight-of-hand-ch%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        13












        $begingroup$

        It's up to the DM



        This is a series of events orchestrated by the party that may require one or more ability checks. In this scenario, what happens is described on page 174 of the PHB:




        The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.




        In general, the player will describe their attempted action, and the DM will then call for any roll(s) and what they are.



        If your DM felt like it should play it one way, then that's way it plays out.



        There were lots of ways this could have played out, but ultimately it's the DM's call as how they're going to adjudicate it.



        There could have been:



        1. 2 rolls. One roll to for the distraction (Deception), one roll to steal (Sleight of Hand)

        2. 1 roll. Sleight of Hand (includes the sneaking) with advantage for working together.

        3. What your DM did may have been because in their mind, you did need to sneak up separately and this required a separate Stealth roll. This is also reasonable if they felt the circumstances required it.

        4. Any other option that the DM felt would tell a good story.





        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$

















          13












          $begingroup$

          It's up to the DM



          This is a series of events orchestrated by the party that may require one or more ability checks. In this scenario, what happens is described on page 174 of the PHB:




          The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.




          In general, the player will describe their attempted action, and the DM will then call for any roll(s) and what they are.



          If your DM felt like it should play it one way, then that's way it plays out.



          There were lots of ways this could have played out, but ultimately it's the DM's call as how they're going to adjudicate it.



          There could have been:



          1. 2 rolls. One roll to for the distraction (Deception), one roll to steal (Sleight of Hand)

          2. 1 roll. Sleight of Hand (includes the sneaking) with advantage for working together.

          3. What your DM did may have been because in their mind, you did need to sneak up separately and this required a separate Stealth roll. This is also reasonable if they felt the circumstances required it.

          4. Any other option that the DM felt would tell a good story.





          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$















            13












            13








            13





            $begingroup$

            It's up to the DM



            This is a series of events orchestrated by the party that may require one or more ability checks. In this scenario, what happens is described on page 174 of the PHB:




            The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.




            In general, the player will describe their attempted action, and the DM will then call for any roll(s) and what they are.



            If your DM felt like it should play it one way, then that's way it plays out.



            There were lots of ways this could have played out, but ultimately it's the DM's call as how they're going to adjudicate it.



            There could have been:



            1. 2 rolls. One roll to for the distraction (Deception), one roll to steal (Sleight of Hand)

            2. 1 roll. Sleight of Hand (includes the sneaking) with advantage for working together.

            3. What your DM did may have been because in their mind, you did need to sneak up separately and this required a separate Stealth roll. This is also reasonable if they felt the circumstances required it.

            4. Any other option that the DM felt would tell a good story.





            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            It's up to the DM



            This is a series of events orchestrated by the party that may require one or more ability checks. In this scenario, what happens is described on page 174 of the PHB:




            The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.




            In general, the player will describe their attempted action, and the DM will then call for any roll(s) and what they are.



            If your DM felt like it should play it one way, then that's way it plays out.



            There were lots of ways this could have played out, but ultimately it's the DM's call as how they're going to adjudicate it.



            There could have been:



            1. 2 rolls. One roll to for the distraction (Deception), one roll to steal (Sleight of Hand)

            2. 1 roll. Sleight of Hand (includes the sneaking) with advantage for working together.

            3. What your DM did may have been because in their mind, you did need to sneak up separately and this required a separate Stealth roll. This is also reasonable if they felt the circumstances required it.

            4. Any other option that the DM felt would tell a good story.






            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Jun 5 at 19:47









            V2Blast

            30.7k5115187




            30.7k5115187










            answered Jun 4 at 14:19









            NautArchNautArch

            69.4k11269465




            69.4k11269465























                3












                $begingroup$

                The important factor, and one you do not mention in your question, is whether or not you were trying to hide or move sneakily at any point.



                Page 177 of the PHB says:




                Stealth. Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you attempt to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.




                IOW, check stealth when you are trying to either hide or you are trying to move without being noticed.



                If you were standing next to the target and the distraction was used to make people look away while you grabbed the pouch and then you just stood there looking nonchalant without trying to leave then I don't see how stealth could apply. You are standing in the open and not trying to sneak so there simply is no stealth involved. As a DM I would roll the checks to see if the mark and anybody close enough to notice the pickpocket were successfully distracted, then have you roll sleight of hand, giving advantage only if everybody was distracted.



                But if you were standing away from the target and used the distraction to move close, grab the money, then move back away from the target all without being seen then there is clearly a need for a stealth check to cover your movement to and from the mark. Even if a person does not see you actually taking the money, anybody who sees an old man quickly move up behind somebody then quickly move away is likely to be suspicious.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$












                • $begingroup$
                  I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
                  $endgroup$
                  – SeriousBri
                  Jun 5 at 10:51















                3












                $begingroup$

                The important factor, and one you do not mention in your question, is whether or not you were trying to hide or move sneakily at any point.



                Page 177 of the PHB says:




                Stealth. Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you attempt to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.




                IOW, check stealth when you are trying to either hide or you are trying to move without being noticed.



                If you were standing next to the target and the distraction was used to make people look away while you grabbed the pouch and then you just stood there looking nonchalant without trying to leave then I don't see how stealth could apply. You are standing in the open and not trying to sneak so there simply is no stealth involved. As a DM I would roll the checks to see if the mark and anybody close enough to notice the pickpocket were successfully distracted, then have you roll sleight of hand, giving advantage only if everybody was distracted.



                But if you were standing away from the target and used the distraction to move close, grab the money, then move back away from the target all without being seen then there is clearly a need for a stealth check to cover your movement to and from the mark. Even if a person does not see you actually taking the money, anybody who sees an old man quickly move up behind somebody then quickly move away is likely to be suspicious.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$












                • $begingroup$
                  I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
                  $endgroup$
                  – SeriousBri
                  Jun 5 at 10:51













                3












                3








                3





                $begingroup$

                The important factor, and one you do not mention in your question, is whether or not you were trying to hide or move sneakily at any point.



                Page 177 of the PHB says:




                Stealth. Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you attempt to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.




                IOW, check stealth when you are trying to either hide or you are trying to move without being noticed.



                If you were standing next to the target and the distraction was used to make people look away while you grabbed the pouch and then you just stood there looking nonchalant without trying to leave then I don't see how stealth could apply. You are standing in the open and not trying to sneak so there simply is no stealth involved. As a DM I would roll the checks to see if the mark and anybody close enough to notice the pickpocket were successfully distracted, then have you roll sleight of hand, giving advantage only if everybody was distracted.



                But if you were standing away from the target and used the distraction to move close, grab the money, then move back away from the target all without being seen then there is clearly a need for a stealth check to cover your movement to and from the mark. Even if a person does not see you actually taking the money, anybody who sees an old man quickly move up behind somebody then quickly move away is likely to be suspicious.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                The important factor, and one you do not mention in your question, is whether or not you were trying to hide or move sneakily at any point.



                Page 177 of the PHB says:




                Stealth. Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you attempt to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.




                IOW, check stealth when you are trying to either hide or you are trying to move without being noticed.



                If you were standing next to the target and the distraction was used to make people look away while you grabbed the pouch and then you just stood there looking nonchalant without trying to leave then I don't see how stealth could apply. You are standing in the open and not trying to sneak so there simply is no stealth involved. As a DM I would roll the checks to see if the mark and anybody close enough to notice the pickpocket were successfully distracted, then have you roll sleight of hand, giving advantage only if everybody was distracted.



                But if you were standing away from the target and used the distraction to move close, grab the money, then move back away from the target all without being seen then there is clearly a need for a stealth check to cover your movement to and from the mark. Even if a person does not see you actually taking the money, anybody who sees an old man quickly move up behind somebody then quickly move away is likely to be suspicious.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Jun 4 at 17:45









                krbkrb

                2,7191617




                2,7191617











                • $begingroup$
                  I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
                  $endgroup$
                  – SeriousBri
                  Jun 5 at 10:51
















                • $begingroup$
                  I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
                  $endgroup$
                  – SeriousBri
                  Jun 5 at 10:51















                $begingroup$
                I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
                $endgroup$
                – SeriousBri
                Jun 5 at 10:51




                $begingroup$
                I love this answer as it explains why stealth isn't needed. Personally I would roll deception (or similar for the distraction) and if that is successful I would grant advantage on the sleight of hand.
                $endgroup$
                – SeriousBri
                Jun 5 at 10:51











                -1












                $begingroup$

                No, you don’t need to roll



                Your DM could rule that, because of your creativity and roleplay, there doesn’t need to be an ability check. From the Dungeon Master’s Guide page 236:




                One approach is to use dice as rarely as possible. Some DMs use them only during combat, and determine success or failure as they like in other situations.
                With this approach, the DM decides whether an action or a plan succeeds or fails based on how well the player: make their case, how thorough or creative they are, or other factors. For example, the players might describe how they search for a secret door, detailing how they tap on a wall or twist a torch sconce to find its trigger. That could be enough to convince the DM that they find the secret door without having to make an ability check to do so.




                Theoretically, assuming your DM allowed for it, your character wouldn’t need to roll any dice because your roleplay is good enough and makes sense in the world.



                However, it seems that your DM wants some kind of roll



                Not all DM’s allow roleplay to replace ability checks in every situation. Either they might not like the concept if it, they may not be convinced enough to warrant it or they might not feel its appropriate for the current situation. Whatever the case, they want you to make a roll.



                I find that reducing the number of dice rolls makes the game more fluid. Additionally, the more you are made to roll, the higher the chance of failure is because you would have to pass both checks, which is statistically less likely than you only passing one or passing neither of them. If you are having to pass multiple checks, you are being set up to fail. This isn’t always a bad thing, sometimes a DM wants something to be a challenge, warranting multiple checks to succeed.



                The way I would rule it is that you don’t have to roll a stealth check, you aren’t trying to hide or be unseen - you’re wearing a disguise, you’re in plain sight. Now, people likely aren’t going to notice you (unless their passive perception is exceptionally high or your disguise is exceptionally poor) or pay attention to you as your disguise means you blend in, you don’t need to roll a stealth check. Additionally, because your target is distracted, they likely aren’t going to notice someone sneaking up behind them anyway, further reducing the need for a stealth check.



                However, I would make you roll a “sleight of hand” check (likely using Dexterity but I could see Charisma or Intelligence being possible alternatives) to see if you can successful pickpocket the target. I would grant advantage if your friend was distracting them based on the Working Together rule (though for it to apply, your friend’s player would need to describe how they are distracting your target, not just say “I distract him”).



                As a side note, there is also the idea of “passive stealth” which might apply. I don’t know too much about it so I can’t give many details. Essentially though, its the counterpart to passive perception, where you aren’t actively trying to be stealthy, you just naturally walk quietly and go unnoticed. Your DM might try using that for future checks to reduce the number of dice rolls, it also may mean you don’t know when you’ve failed a check until its too late, which could be interesting.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$

















                  -1












                  $begingroup$

                  No, you don’t need to roll



                  Your DM could rule that, because of your creativity and roleplay, there doesn’t need to be an ability check. From the Dungeon Master’s Guide page 236:




                  One approach is to use dice as rarely as possible. Some DMs use them only during combat, and determine success or failure as they like in other situations.
                  With this approach, the DM decides whether an action or a plan succeeds or fails based on how well the player: make their case, how thorough or creative they are, or other factors. For example, the players might describe how they search for a secret door, detailing how they tap on a wall or twist a torch sconce to find its trigger. That could be enough to convince the DM that they find the secret door without having to make an ability check to do so.




                  Theoretically, assuming your DM allowed for it, your character wouldn’t need to roll any dice because your roleplay is good enough and makes sense in the world.



                  However, it seems that your DM wants some kind of roll



                  Not all DM’s allow roleplay to replace ability checks in every situation. Either they might not like the concept if it, they may not be convinced enough to warrant it or they might not feel its appropriate for the current situation. Whatever the case, they want you to make a roll.



                  I find that reducing the number of dice rolls makes the game more fluid. Additionally, the more you are made to roll, the higher the chance of failure is because you would have to pass both checks, which is statistically less likely than you only passing one or passing neither of them. If you are having to pass multiple checks, you are being set up to fail. This isn’t always a bad thing, sometimes a DM wants something to be a challenge, warranting multiple checks to succeed.



                  The way I would rule it is that you don’t have to roll a stealth check, you aren’t trying to hide or be unseen - you’re wearing a disguise, you’re in plain sight. Now, people likely aren’t going to notice you (unless their passive perception is exceptionally high or your disguise is exceptionally poor) or pay attention to you as your disguise means you blend in, you don’t need to roll a stealth check. Additionally, because your target is distracted, they likely aren’t going to notice someone sneaking up behind them anyway, further reducing the need for a stealth check.



                  However, I would make you roll a “sleight of hand” check (likely using Dexterity but I could see Charisma or Intelligence being possible alternatives) to see if you can successful pickpocket the target. I would grant advantage if your friend was distracting them based on the Working Together rule (though for it to apply, your friend’s player would need to describe how they are distracting your target, not just say “I distract him”).



                  As a side note, there is also the idea of “passive stealth” which might apply. I don’t know too much about it so I can’t give many details. Essentially though, its the counterpart to passive perception, where you aren’t actively trying to be stealthy, you just naturally walk quietly and go unnoticed. Your DM might try using that for future checks to reduce the number of dice rolls, it also may mean you don’t know when you’ve failed a check until its too late, which could be interesting.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$















                    -1












                    -1








                    -1





                    $begingroup$

                    No, you don’t need to roll



                    Your DM could rule that, because of your creativity and roleplay, there doesn’t need to be an ability check. From the Dungeon Master’s Guide page 236:




                    One approach is to use dice as rarely as possible. Some DMs use them only during combat, and determine success or failure as they like in other situations.
                    With this approach, the DM decides whether an action or a plan succeeds or fails based on how well the player: make their case, how thorough or creative they are, or other factors. For example, the players might describe how they search for a secret door, detailing how they tap on a wall or twist a torch sconce to find its trigger. That could be enough to convince the DM that they find the secret door without having to make an ability check to do so.




                    Theoretically, assuming your DM allowed for it, your character wouldn’t need to roll any dice because your roleplay is good enough and makes sense in the world.



                    However, it seems that your DM wants some kind of roll



                    Not all DM’s allow roleplay to replace ability checks in every situation. Either they might not like the concept if it, they may not be convinced enough to warrant it or they might not feel its appropriate for the current situation. Whatever the case, they want you to make a roll.



                    I find that reducing the number of dice rolls makes the game more fluid. Additionally, the more you are made to roll, the higher the chance of failure is because you would have to pass both checks, which is statistically less likely than you only passing one or passing neither of them. If you are having to pass multiple checks, you are being set up to fail. This isn’t always a bad thing, sometimes a DM wants something to be a challenge, warranting multiple checks to succeed.



                    The way I would rule it is that you don’t have to roll a stealth check, you aren’t trying to hide or be unseen - you’re wearing a disguise, you’re in plain sight. Now, people likely aren’t going to notice you (unless their passive perception is exceptionally high or your disguise is exceptionally poor) or pay attention to you as your disguise means you blend in, you don’t need to roll a stealth check. Additionally, because your target is distracted, they likely aren’t going to notice someone sneaking up behind them anyway, further reducing the need for a stealth check.



                    However, I would make you roll a “sleight of hand” check (likely using Dexterity but I could see Charisma or Intelligence being possible alternatives) to see if you can successful pickpocket the target. I would grant advantage if your friend was distracting them based on the Working Together rule (though for it to apply, your friend’s player would need to describe how they are distracting your target, not just say “I distract him”).



                    As a side note, there is also the idea of “passive stealth” which might apply. I don’t know too much about it so I can’t give many details. Essentially though, its the counterpart to passive perception, where you aren’t actively trying to be stealthy, you just naturally walk quietly and go unnoticed. Your DM might try using that for future checks to reduce the number of dice rolls, it also may mean you don’t know when you’ve failed a check until its too late, which could be interesting.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    No, you don’t need to roll



                    Your DM could rule that, because of your creativity and roleplay, there doesn’t need to be an ability check. From the Dungeon Master’s Guide page 236:




                    One approach is to use dice as rarely as possible. Some DMs use them only during combat, and determine success or failure as they like in other situations.
                    With this approach, the DM decides whether an action or a plan succeeds or fails based on how well the player: make their case, how thorough or creative they are, or other factors. For example, the players might describe how they search for a secret door, detailing how they tap on a wall or twist a torch sconce to find its trigger. That could be enough to convince the DM that they find the secret door without having to make an ability check to do so.




                    Theoretically, assuming your DM allowed for it, your character wouldn’t need to roll any dice because your roleplay is good enough and makes sense in the world.



                    However, it seems that your DM wants some kind of roll



                    Not all DM’s allow roleplay to replace ability checks in every situation. Either they might not like the concept if it, they may not be convinced enough to warrant it or they might not feel its appropriate for the current situation. Whatever the case, they want you to make a roll.



                    I find that reducing the number of dice rolls makes the game more fluid. Additionally, the more you are made to roll, the higher the chance of failure is because you would have to pass both checks, which is statistically less likely than you only passing one or passing neither of them. If you are having to pass multiple checks, you are being set up to fail. This isn’t always a bad thing, sometimes a DM wants something to be a challenge, warranting multiple checks to succeed.



                    The way I would rule it is that you don’t have to roll a stealth check, you aren’t trying to hide or be unseen - you’re wearing a disguise, you’re in plain sight. Now, people likely aren’t going to notice you (unless their passive perception is exceptionally high or your disguise is exceptionally poor) or pay attention to you as your disguise means you blend in, you don’t need to roll a stealth check. Additionally, because your target is distracted, they likely aren’t going to notice someone sneaking up behind them anyway, further reducing the need for a stealth check.



                    However, I would make you roll a “sleight of hand” check (likely using Dexterity but I could see Charisma or Intelligence being possible alternatives) to see if you can successful pickpocket the target. I would grant advantage if your friend was distracting them based on the Working Together rule (though for it to apply, your friend’s player would need to describe how they are distracting your target, not just say “I distract him”).



                    As a side note, there is also the idea of “passive stealth” which might apply. I don’t know too much about it so I can’t give many details. Essentially though, its the counterpart to passive perception, where you aren’t actively trying to be stealthy, you just naturally walk quietly and go unnoticed. Your DM might try using that for future checks to reduce the number of dice rolls, it also may mean you don’t know when you’ve failed a check until its too late, which could be interesting.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Jun 5 at 0:05









                    Liam MorrisLiam Morris

                    2,8111040




                    2,8111040





















                        -2












                        $begingroup$

                        I think the underlying issue here is a misunderstanding of some very basic rules of 5th edition D&D, namely, there's no such thing as a stealth check or a slight of hand check.



                        5e, unlike previous editions, has no skill checks. It has Ability Checks. If a skill proficiency applies to the task at hand and the creature doing the task has proficiency with that skill, then they add their proficiency modifier to the Ability Check. Even in that case, it's still an Ability Check, not a skill check. So, understanding that subtle but important difference, the resolution of the situation becomes much clearer.



                        The situation calls for an Ability Check. Which ability is the correct one for this Ability Check? Clearly Dexterity. The DM asks for a (single) Dexterity Check. But wait, what about my skills? The DM can pick one or more skill proficiencies that apply, and if you have proficiency in any one of the skills that apply, you add your proficiency modifier to the roll.






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$

















                          -2












                          $begingroup$

                          I think the underlying issue here is a misunderstanding of some very basic rules of 5th edition D&D, namely, there's no such thing as a stealth check or a slight of hand check.



                          5e, unlike previous editions, has no skill checks. It has Ability Checks. If a skill proficiency applies to the task at hand and the creature doing the task has proficiency with that skill, then they add their proficiency modifier to the Ability Check. Even in that case, it's still an Ability Check, not a skill check. So, understanding that subtle but important difference, the resolution of the situation becomes much clearer.



                          The situation calls for an Ability Check. Which ability is the correct one for this Ability Check? Clearly Dexterity. The DM asks for a (single) Dexterity Check. But wait, what about my skills? The DM can pick one or more skill proficiencies that apply, and if you have proficiency in any one of the skills that apply, you add your proficiency modifier to the roll.






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$















                            -2












                            -2








                            -2





                            $begingroup$

                            I think the underlying issue here is a misunderstanding of some very basic rules of 5th edition D&D, namely, there's no such thing as a stealth check or a slight of hand check.



                            5e, unlike previous editions, has no skill checks. It has Ability Checks. If a skill proficiency applies to the task at hand and the creature doing the task has proficiency with that skill, then they add their proficiency modifier to the Ability Check. Even in that case, it's still an Ability Check, not a skill check. So, understanding that subtle but important difference, the resolution of the situation becomes much clearer.



                            The situation calls for an Ability Check. Which ability is the correct one for this Ability Check? Clearly Dexterity. The DM asks for a (single) Dexterity Check. But wait, what about my skills? The DM can pick one or more skill proficiencies that apply, and if you have proficiency in any one of the skills that apply, you add your proficiency modifier to the roll.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            I think the underlying issue here is a misunderstanding of some very basic rules of 5th edition D&D, namely, there's no such thing as a stealth check or a slight of hand check.



                            5e, unlike previous editions, has no skill checks. It has Ability Checks. If a skill proficiency applies to the task at hand and the creature doing the task has proficiency with that skill, then they add their proficiency modifier to the Ability Check. Even in that case, it's still an Ability Check, not a skill check. So, understanding that subtle but important difference, the resolution of the situation becomes much clearer.



                            The situation calls for an Ability Check. Which ability is the correct one for this Ability Check? Clearly Dexterity. The DM asks for a (single) Dexterity Check. But wait, what about my skills? The DM can pick one or more skill proficiencies that apply, and if you have proficiency in any one of the skills that apply, you add your proficiency modifier to the roll.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited Jun 5 at 16:14

























                            answered Jun 4 at 19:51









                            Derek StuckiDerek Stucki

                            22.4k773114




                            22.4k773114



























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded
















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid


                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f149274%2fwhen-stealing-something-do-you-need-to-roll-both-stealth-and-sleight-of-hand-ch%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Wikipedia:Vital articles Мазмуну Biography - Өмүр баян Philosophy and psychology - Философия жана психология Religion - Дин Social sciences - Коомдук илимдер Language and literature - Тил жана адабият Science - Илим Technology - Технология Arts and recreation - Искусство жана эс алуу History and geography - Тарых жана география Навигация менюсу

                                Club Baloncesto Breogán Índice Historia | Pavillón | Nome | O Breogán na cultura popular | Xogadores | Adestradores | Presidentes | Palmarés | Historial | Líderes | Notas | Véxase tamén | Menú de navegacióncbbreogan.galCadroGuía oficial da ACB 2009-10, páxina 201Guía oficial ACB 1992, páxina 183. Editorial DB.É de 6.500 espectadores sentados axeitándose á última normativa"Estudiantes Junior, entre as mellores canteiras"o orixinalHemeroteca El Mundo Deportivo, 16 setembro de 1970, páxina 12Historia do BreogánAlfredo Pérez, o último canoneiroHistoria C.B. BreogánHemeroteca de El Mundo DeportivoJimmy Wright, norteamericano do Breogán deixará Lugo por ameazas de morteResultados de Breogán en 1986-87Resultados de Breogán en 1990-91Ficha de Velimir Perasović en acb.comResultados de Breogán en 1994-95Breogán arrasa al Barça. "El Mundo Deportivo", 27 de setembro de 1999, páxina 58CB Breogán - FC BarcelonaA FEB invita a participar nunha nova Liga EuropeaCharlie Bell na prensa estatalMáximos anotadores 2005Tempada 2005-06 : Tódolos Xogadores da Xornada""Non quero pensar nunha man negra, mais pregúntome que está a pasar""o orixinalRaúl López, orgulloso dos xogadores, presume da boa saúde económica do BreogánJulio González confirma que cesa como presidente del BreogánHomenaxe a Lisardo GómezA tempada do rexurdimento celesteEntrevista a Lisardo GómezEl COB dinamita el Pazo para forzar el quinto (69-73)Cafés Candelas, patrocinador del CB Breogán"Suso Lázare, novo presidente do Breogán"o orixinalCafés Candelas Breogán firma el mayor triunfo de la historiaEl Breogán realizará 17 homenajes por su cincuenta aniversario"O Breogán honra ao seu fundador e primeiro presidente"o orixinalMiguel Giao recibiu a homenaxe do PazoHomenaxe aos primeiros gladiadores celestesO home que nos amosa como ver o Breo co corazónTita Franco será homenaxeada polos #50anosdeBreoJulio Vila recibirá unha homenaxe in memoriam polos #50anosdeBreo"O Breogán homenaxeará aos seus aboados máis veteráns"Pechada ovación a «Capi» Sanmartín e Ricardo «Corazón de González»Homenaxe por décadas de informaciónPaco García volve ao Pazo con motivo do 50 aniversario"Resultados y clasificaciones""O Cafés Candelas Breogán, campión da Copa Princesa""O Cafés Candelas Breogán, equipo ACB"C.B. Breogán"Proxecto social"o orixinal"Centros asociados"o orixinalFicha en imdb.comMario Camus trata la recuperación del amor en 'La vieja música', su última película"Páxina web oficial""Club Baloncesto Breogán""C. B. Breogán S.A.D."eehttp://www.fegaba.com

                                What should I write in an apology letter, since I have decided not to join a company after accepting an offer letterShould I keep looking after accepting a job offer?What should I do when I've been verbally told I would get an offer letter, but still haven't gotten one after 4 weeks?Do I accept an offer from a company that I am not likely to join?New job hasn't confirmed starting date and I want to give current employer as much notice as possibleHow should I address my manager in my resignation letter?HR delayed background verification, now jobless as resignedNo email communication after accepting a formal written offer. How should I phrase the call?What should I do if after receiving a verbal offer letter I am informed that my written job offer is put on hold due to some internal issues?Should I inform the current employer that I am about to resign within 1-2 weeks since I have signed the offer letter and waiting for visa?What company will do, if I send their offer letter to another company