How should I mix small caps with digits or symbols?Why should I ever use Unicode’s special characters for Roman numerals?Unicode superscript numbers 1 to 3 vs. 4 and aboveAre faux small caps now considered OK?What's with size-specific fonts?How to add drop caps in photoshop?How to construct “lowercase digits” (i.e. text figures)?Small caps in names as part of an adjectiveHow do I achieve the equivalent of using small caps in Arabic?Should I use capital letters (titlecase) when using small caps?Are faux small caps now considered OK?What is the difference between small caps and capitals?Create a dedicated (small caps) TrueType font from and existing OpenType fontAcronyms in headers/lists - small caps?If good examples of small-caps in typography in article/body text exist
How were concentration and extermination camp guards recruited?
Applicants clearly not having the skills they advertise
Did thousands of women die every year due to illegal abortions before Roe v. Wade?
Avoiding cliches when writing gods
How much water is needed to create a Katana capable of cutting flesh, bones and wood?
Linux tr to convert vertical text to horizontal
Is it a problem that pull requests are approved without any comments
Short story written from alien perspective with this line: "It's too bright to look at, so they don't"
Diet Coke or water?
If Boris Johnson were prosecuted and convicted of lying about Brexit, can that be used to cancel Brexit?
Working in the USA for living expenses only; allowed on VWP?
Can Green-Flame Blade be cast twice with the Hunter ranger's Horde Breaker ability?
What is the advantage of carrying a tripod and ND-filters when you could use image stacking instead?
Is the capacitor drawn or wired wrongly?
Traffic law UK, pedestrians
Movie where a boy is transported into the future by an alien spaceship
PhD student with mental health issues and bad performance
Does Peach's float negate shorthop knockback multipliers?
Is it legal in the UK for politicians to lie to the public for political gain?
Shrink exponential fraction argument
How certain is a caster of when their spell will end?
How to decline physical affection from a child whose parents are pressuring them?
Does the growth of home value benefit from compound interest?
Company is asking me to work from overseas, but wants me to take a paycut
How should I mix small caps with digits or symbols?
Why should I ever use Unicode’s special characters for Roman numerals?Unicode superscript numbers 1 to 3 vs. 4 and aboveAre faux small caps now considered OK?What's with size-specific fonts?How to add drop caps in photoshop?How to construct “lowercase digits” (i.e. text figures)?Small caps in names as part of an adjectiveHow do I achieve the equivalent of using small caps in Arabic?Should I use capital letters (titlecase) when using small caps?Are faux small caps now considered OK?What is the difference between small caps and capitals?Create a dedicated (small caps) TrueType font from and existing OpenType fontAcronyms in headers/lists - small caps?If good examples of small-caps in typography in article/body text exist
In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)
In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.
How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.
- Set these in regular capitals
- Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
typography
add a comment |
In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)
In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.
How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.
- Set these in regular capitals
- Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
typography
add a comment |
In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)
In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.
How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.
- Set these in regular capitals
- Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
typography
In a paper I'm writing I have set acronyms (e.g. IBM, GNU, API, NDIS) and Roman numerals in small caps. In some cases there is text set in small caps that is intermixed with other digits or symbols, e.g. PDP-7, 4.2BSD, I/O, mkdir(II), AT&T. (The "mkdir" term is set in italics, as a the name of a computer command.) The II in brackets was used at the time as the Roman number of the manual page section that documented it.)
In the proof I received there's a large difference between the size of small caps and the digits or symbols, and therefore the result appears ugly. You can see some examples below.
How should I address this issue? Here are two possibilities I see.
- Set these in regular capitals
- Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
typography
typography
edited May 18 at 17:37
Diomidis Spinellis
asked May 18 at 16:55
Diomidis SpinellisDiomidis Spinellis
1185
1185
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.
That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.
If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:
Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.
Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.
Use suiting alternative forms where you can.
To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:
Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.
Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
add a comment |
You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.
Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.
1
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "174"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgraphicdesign.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f124715%2fhow-should-i-mix-small-caps-with-digits-or-symbols%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.
That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.
If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:
Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.
Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.
Use suiting alternative forms where you can.
To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:
Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.
Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
add a comment |
To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.
That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.
If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:
Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.
Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.
Use suiting alternative forms where you can.
To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:
Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.
Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
add a comment |
To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.
That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.
If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:
Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.
Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.
Use suiting alternative forms where you can.
To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:
Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.
Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.
To discuss your example, it helps to distinguish between petite caps who have roughly x height and small caps, who are larger than that (but not as big as regular caps). What you have, strongly looks like petite caps or anyway too small for being used for acronyms and similar. Text using them will be awkward to read, because the brain will automatically parse these acronyms as lowercase, even when they should not be – because they are proper names or are at the beginning of a sentence.
If the font in question does not have distinct small caps with these properties, I would refrain from this convention altogether.
That being said, a very good font would also have extra variants of numbers, brackets, slashes, etc. specific for all-small-caps style that are specifically designed to not stand out from your small caps.
If these are not available, possible solutions for your problems are:
Use lowercase numbers as their centre of mass is roughly the same as those of the petite caps. However, they will still stand out a bit due to most of them having ascenders and descenders.
Use specific glyphs for Roman numerals.
Use suiting alternative forms where you can.
To illustrate some points, here are your examples set in Linux Libertine (which has rather small caps than petite caps), using lowercase numbers, designated glyphs for Roman numerals, and alternative characters:
Finally, since we are talking about typesetters for academic journals here, I strongly suggest investigating the what features the font they use supports (they won’t use any other) and give them detailed instructions on what features you want (and even then you only have a tiny chance of success). The best way to go would probably to just settle on regular all caps.
Use a smaller font for the joined digits and symbols
Unless you have optical sizes available, this is a bad idea, since the scaled glyphs will not optically match. This is the problem with faux small caps, faux super- and subscripts, and similar.
answered May 18 at 20:29
Wrzlprmft♦Wrzlprmft
11.2k44576
11.2k44576
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
add a comment |
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Given that a proof has been received, it appears they use one or other version of Palatino and photographically-reduced capitals for small caps. When I was forced to do that, I stretched them to 115% width, so that the verticals were the right thickness and they weren't the same shape as ordinary capitals. The result was not bad at all.
– Andrew Leach
May 18 at 21:14
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
Interesting idea! I think the main problem in my case is the height, not the shape. Also, I don't have detailed control over formatting any more, I just mark my changes and comments on the draft PDF.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 19 at 20:27
add a comment |
You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.
Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.
1
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
add a comment |
You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.
Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.
1
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
add a comment |
You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.
Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.
You could use old-style (lower-case), non-lining numbers with the small caps letters for a more balanced appearance.
Lining numbers look more uniform for use with full caps or in rows and columns for accounting, say, and appearance of regularity and uniformity.
edited May 19 at 12:36
Community♦
1
1
answered May 18 at 18:33
StanStan
4,139921
4,139921
1
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
add a comment |
1
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
1
1
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Thank you. I wasn't aware of this option fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/…. Unfortunately, I doubt the journal's editors will be willing/able to accommodate it.
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:44
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
Also, how would this address the cases of "(II)" and "AT&T"?
– Diomidis Spinellis
May 18 at 18:50
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
@DiomidisSpinellis Acronyms in small caps, and abbreviations in full caps, word marks (as opposed to trade marks and logotypes) as appropriate (cop-out, guilty) more here: abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/articles/… You may even find it handy to generate a style-sheet for consistency.
– Stan
May 18 at 20:14
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Graphic Design Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgraphicdesign.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f124715%2fhow-should-i-mix-small-caps-with-digits-or-symbols%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown