Otdfbt

Question

Ideally this was to be an easy project. Create a report for a website. Something like this:

I am provided a template (drawn up by graphics designer)

I implement/update the programming to match (codify)

Repeat 1 or 2 as needed if I miss something or more changes/updates are needed.

The end.

Instead, it appears this coworker lacks the required workflow on how to go about this project, and abuses my time to visualize output of her changes to the project. Namely, she is not utilizing the graphics department to draft the proper template. She makes updates to the template herself, often on the fly, while requesting my input on those changes. Usually ignores my input.

Typically this goes as such - coworker is either repeatedly stopping by my desk at random intervals or requests me for spontaneous meetings, and tells me things like these

omg, I am "so done" with this project

can you make this change today? today right? Today(?)

can you make this title smaller?

can you make these cells the same width?

can you make this text bigger, right?

does this (font, title, margin, space, logo) look right to you? I don't know what do you think? (repeat 3-4 times)

You're going to do this today, right?

can you make this wider/smaller/bigger/shift left/shift right

what do you think?

Repeat all of the above the next day. There is no template even though my boss asked her to provide one. The template she did provide was trampled over by her (back to the change process described above).

I am not a graphics designer. I can match the report to a given template, but I don't care, nor should I provide guidance on what the report should look like. These constant changes and spontaneous meetings can last 30-40 minutes, where coworker repeats her changes, mulls over them indecisively, for the duration of the event, while I am getting ready to shoot myself figuratively.

One meeting in particular, an interaction triggered an anxiety attack. I had to use controlled breathing coping technique to keep myself calm. This should not be a typical workplace response.

The interaction was when I reluctantly kept agreeing to implement incoming changes, which only produced more change requests, and she still was not sure if those were the changes she wanted to be implemented.

In reality though I am also done with this project, even before she starts her next change avalanche. She is keeping me from advancing to other more important projects. (Projects that do not involve making fonts just a tad smaller/bigger/wider/narrower ad infinitum)

is this coworker your boss (seems like not)? or in charge of this project? — Apr 25 at 18:27
talked to boss man, and he said to push that project to next week, and in the mean time work on another one — Apr 25 at 19:12
You probably should post a question like this with a throw-away account next time. You don't want people to stumble across questions you asked about them. — Apr 25 at 20:46
@trognanders There's nothing wrong with imaginary violence if it's a coping mechanism. — Apr 26 at 3:10

MylesMyles 29k865114 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 18:45:02Z

I think the crux of the situation is:

There is no template even though my boss asked her to provide one.

Next time she stops by, beat her to the punch and insist that you need the template to do your job before she even asks for the next iteration of request. When she derails the conversation with specifics of what she wants wholeheartedly agree that that should be a part of the template that she will provide you. Do not agree to provide this report again without a template unless you get specific instructions from your boss to do so. If you are feeling it, drop by her office unannounced and ask for the template that she was supposed to provide you.

As your boss is aware but not taking action, let them know that you will not be fulfilling future requests from this person unless proper business processes are followed.

+1 Stay firm. No template = no changes period. Say it in writing in an email that includes your boss if you have to. — Apr 25 at 18:52
If questioned on it, you can support the no-template-no-programming decision by pointing out that the current non-process is not working. — Apr 25 at 22:14
If you don't push back on inadequate specs or lack of resources, you'll never get good specs or the necessary resources. Learning to say no is a skill. — Apr 26 at 9:06
Also, make sure that all changes requested are documented and signed off formally - if nothing else, you don't want the finished project to be compared against the original spec that it no longer remotely resembles to determine your success! A paper trail to show the changes ensures that they are both testable, and you can use the volume and timescales to push back or escalate an issue (e.g. "the requirements for this component have been changed twice weekly for the past month - hence why it has not yet been completed") — Apr 26 at 10:32
It's also worth investigating why the requestor hasn't been doing the template in the first place... For example, if the software they use to do the template is not good, or they aren't good at using it, that could be remedied. Or if they're just a "think out loud" person, scheduling a recurring meeting where you work on the template together would help (the OP says that the OP is not a graphic/UI designer, if there IS a designer on the team then that person should also be involved in the meetings). — Apr 26 at 13:28

score 71 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 19:41:20Z

71

When she talks to me my anxiety goes through the roof. I have to use
controlled breathing while imagining murdering her in a variety of
ways. This is bad.

You should be discussing this part with a mental health professional.

They can advise strategies and/or medication to help you cope with your anxiety, since you find it so severe.

What do I do exactly because even in my infinite wisdom I kept a poker
face telling her grits teeth "okay I will implement those changes" In
reality though I am also done with this project, even before she
started. She is keeping me from advancing to other more important
projects.

You should be discussing this part with your boss.

Together you should decide how far you should be going to please this coworker (and any other consumer of your work). And together you should decide how to deal with them when they want more than you are authorized by your boss to give.

edited Apr 26 at 19:41

answered Apr 25 at 18:36

Joe Strazzere

258k1337541068

44

You should be discussing this part with your medical professional. --- this is key.

– Mister Positive♦
Apr 25 at 18:45

3

Being in a meeting room with her, activated my "fight or flight instinct", which I didn't know how to deal with, and could not come up with a plan to deal with it on the fly. Hence I processed the fight part as imagining various ways of murder, and for the flight part I desperately wanted/needed to get away from that situation altogether, but I could not find socially appropriate ways to do so, hence it raised my anxiety and created labored breathing - upon noticing which, I tried to pay attention to it and control it. Certainly something I can discuss with a psychotherapist for further input

– dennismv
Apr 25 at 20:52

10

While I agree with this up to a point, if someone walked up to you and kicked you in the shin repeatedly, you would get angry. That anger would not be a medical issue, it would be an entirely normal response. Likewise, there are some workplace situations that just suck. My answer to the OP would only repeat Myles's answer above, but I see this issue as that the OP feels totally helpless because he is not proactively addressing the situation, and he is becoming angry / anxious due to that; the issue is not that he feels angry / anxious per se.

– Joe Stevens
Apr 26 at 13:26

4

@JoeStrazzere I think you are underestimating the stress and tension that workplace situations, if improperly handled, can cause. It is, of course, not normal, to allow someone who entirely lacks focus and entirely lacks planning free reign over your working day. But, one can easily see if that were allowed it would lead to stress and anxiety. The OP needs to better manage his workload, not get medical help to be calm while he allows someone else to cause havoc with it.

– Joe Stevens
Apr 26 at 17:01

5

This answer would probably be better with "your mental health professional", to weaken the strong connection between "medical professional" and "medication".

– Timbo
Apr 26 at 19:10

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show 3 more comments

score 14 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 20:17:56Z

She is keeping me from advancing to other more important projects.

That should be important to the organization's leadership. So, you will hopefully have your manager's support when you set a firm deadline beyond which further edits cannot be made.

Here's an example. "I am unable to make any additional changes to this document after [insert the day of your choice, including today]. Please make sure to give me a complete list of all the final edits you'd like before then."

If they have a change after that deadline, take it to your manager and let them know how and why the situation is preventing you from addressing more important projects.

I would go further and say: "I have built this exactly as you asked me to and we have iterated on it multiple times. It is ready to be released as is whenever you want. If you have change requests, please talk to my manager since I am working on other tasks at the moment". — Apr 26 at 17:00

score 9 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 18:54:21Z

How do I deal with a coworker that keeps asking to make small superficial changes to a report, and it is seriously triggering my anxiety?

Seems that this coworker is (1) not your boss and (2) bypassing the established procedure for the project development (template, given, implement it, repeat).

I suggest a two-step approach:

First, try to address and solve this with this coworker. Next time they ask you to make some changes, or asks you for a random meeting, try something like this:

Hello Joe, I am currently busy with Project A and B. Is this related to the Website Report Project? If so, and you wish some changes to be done, please send me the new template along with the changes listed via email, and I will get to it as soon as I can.

This way you are kindly steering them towards the correct development procedure, and making them aware that you have other, important projects to do.

If this fails, the next step is to bring this up to your boss. A professional way to phrase it I can think of is:

Hello Boss. Lately Joe has been asking me several changes regarding the Website Report Project. I am aware that I also have Projects A, B and C to work on, so I want to ask you if I should give this Report project priority over the others.

Regardless, could you please send us an email indicating how the development procedure should be? I understand I should be provided with a template, and only after that I can proceed to make the changes. Is this correct, boss?

This way you are also politely steering your coworker to the proper development procedure, by having your boss remind you two how it should be. After this, if your coworker insists on out-of-procedure changes, you can safely point them to your boss's indication and ask them to follow the standard procedure.

EchoxEchox 2114 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 21:56:41Z

It's weird, I see no answer addressing what I feel is the core of the problem so I'm adding my own :

What do I do exactly because even I kept a poker face telling her while gritting teeth: "okay I can/will implement those changes"

By agreeing each time to the demands of your coworker, you enable her behavior and she'll feel unconsciously encouraged to keep doing things the way she does it.

So if someone, anyone (even your boss) keeps interrupting you for small things and for bad reasons until it makes you unable to work correctly and even stresses you out, you need first to be able to say "No, it's not possible".

Once you've done that, of course you can start discussing better processes or what are the correct channels to do thing, as stated in the other answers. The point is not to block everything, just to make them understand that their ways are unproductive and/or just bothering you (which is sometimes something they just weren't aware of and will comply quite nicely once they are).

So concurred. A hard "No" or even a soft "I too am feeling over-burdened with this project. I want to stop working on it to other more interesting work. I think we should release it as BETA and see if the user-base has feedback on it. Let's set the feedback period for a month and revisit it after you've gone through all the feedback" might be the next best response. — Apr 26 at 20:14
Inhaftiert the same reaction, tell people when they are not welcome or why their requests have low prio. — Apr 27 at 14:33

BSMPBSMP 3,8891428 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 19:31:27Z

Other answers have already covered insisting on getting the template and talking to your boss about how to prioritize this work (including getting a deadline).

Once the template exists, schedule a time to meet with her and then only discuss changes during that meeting. This way you aren't getting randomly pulled away from more important work multiple times a day. When she tries to get you to drop everything for a change to the template, say you can discuss it at the meeting:

We'll have to talk about that during our meeting.

We can go over your new template at the meeting.

We can talk about time estimates at the meeting.

We're meeting about that at [day/time], let's talk about it then.

omg, I am "so done" with this project

You can try to discourage this by saying things like:

I like to try to stay positive about our work.

Having the template and regular meetings will make this easier to finish.

Let's focus on wrapping this up.

If the report is essentially done, you can point this out when she says she complains:

Actually, I think this looks good. Are you ready to wrap up with project?

The report looks complete. Is there anything preventing us from saying this is done?

Since these responses invite discussion, only use them if she complains during the meeting.

I disagree with the stereotypical office way of solving problems: I see there is a problem so lets schedule a meeting and discuss 2 hours about how to solve it As I can see, the woman causing the problem is thinking in the same way and is wasting OP's time even more. Short email with just ready template and list of changes made recently might be good solution to the problem. — Apr 26 at 14:33
@mpasko256 I'm not suggesting that the OP sit with their co-worker for 2 whole hours. I'm saying that setting up a pre-planned meeting is a good way of shutting down the random impromptu meetings. I agree that this is the sort of thing that should be doable via email but it really sounds like this coworker is going to want to talk about it anyway. Rather than risk her complaining to the boss that OP refuses to meet/talk with her, meet once and be done with it. — Apr 26 at 16:58
What do I do when she scheduled a meeting to follow up on the changes to be made? This will be our 4th meeting, like this. and I don't want the meeting to reduce to "Okay, did you make this bigger/smaller? I don't think it looks professional, what else can we change, what do you think?" etc.. I'm guessing I need to insist on getting a template before the meeting exists? She was pushing back on having a template, saying she "just needs to make a few final changes" to where a template won't help. i.e. creating entire template when a few changes remain is something I'd have to fight for — Apr 29 at 19:19
I'm guessing I need to insist on getting a template before the meeting exists? @dennismv Yes, absolutely. She needs to have a template with all the changes that need to happen before this meeting can happen. There's no point in meeting is she isn't sure what needs changing yet. When she tries to make that argument about a few final changes, point out that she's said this multiple times before and that doing a lot of small changes piecemeal like this is not a good use of your time. — Apr 29 at 19:49

SuperSecretAndHiddenFromWorkSuperSecretAndHiddenFromWork 1733 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 10:54:21Z

I programmatically make PDFs of content on a site and suffer from exactly the same issue as you, although it's my director that requests these multiple and minute changes all day long

What it boiled down to is her using my output for 'testing': they want to see the report on the system, critique it, then make changes

What solved the problem for me was doing:

Exaggerating the amount of work it is to make a small change. So saying "I can do this, but it will require a lot of other backend changes", coupled with:

Repeating the changes back to them and asking them to confirm, then giving your own deadline of "for tomorrow" and avoid agreeing to do something immediately or that day

When they come back later and ask for a change again, say "i'll have to redo the functions to implement that and so will miss the deadline" meaning that either I carry on with what was agreed, or i'll miss the deadline that was agreed upon

Another idea I think could work for you is saying that the project is taking too long and now you need to log your activity on it. So you'll now be logging all her "requests" as time spent on this project

I'd love to upvote your final paragraph, but I can't because your three points before it propose lying about what you do at your job. No matter how good the intentions behind the lies that's a really unethical response to a horrible situation in my opinion. — Apr 26 at 13:16
It's not necessarily a fixed lie in my opinion. Surely sometimes when implementing something, unexpected problems arise and so it's good practice to overestimate timings. As a programmer i've heard it's common practice to say something will take a day, since you might not have anticipated a bug manifesting itself. We point 3, I suppose you technically are redoing the functions for the formatting. Basically my point is to 'scare off' the request with correct, albeit intimidating language — Apr 26 at 13:39
In the case that logging time against it was happening anyway, reminding them how much time you've already spent on it could work. "I've logged X hours against this, this change will take another Y." — Apr 26 at 17:01

bilbo_pingouinbilbo_pingouin 1,47711016 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 12:11:13Z

It seems that you have already found the answer you were looking for, but it might be interesting to others.

I had a somewhat similar situation, where commercials where constantly contacting the developers with features requests, new bugs, etc. without any kind of prioritizing. And always strict deadline: "for yesterday, very important customer". As a result the code quality and progress was strongly limited.

What we did was install a ticketing system (JIRA), and a change process. And be firm in insisting they use those:

Sorry, but until there is a change request in the system, I can't work on it.

The process could be a weekly/bi-weekly meeting with your boss to decide what needs to get in, what doesn't, and set priorities accordingly.

This all will ask as a buffer. They will ask much less changes if they have to "work" for it (fill a form) and wait until they get back their change. That way, you (together with your boss) set the rhythm, not the "customer" (or in that case your colleague).

+1. The ticketing system provides visibility to your boss and her boss on the requests being made. If these changes are as inconsequential as OP has stated, then someone should be able to see all the tiny requests she is putting in and ask, "Do we really need our highly paid developer spending time reducing the title font size from 32 to 30, or is there something more critical they could be doing?" — Apr 26 at 20:32

SaschaSascha 9,86222443 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 18:45:35Z

There is no template even though my boss asked her to provide one.

Ok, she doesn't deliver what your boss wants? His Problem (and then your colleagues), not yours - if you report on the project state openly.

When she talks to me my anxiety goes through the roof. I have to use controlled breathing while imagining murdering her in a variety of ways. This is bad.

No, thats not unusual, as long as the imagined ways of murdering her are fast and painless. But much better would be if you imagine to (and do) report the status of the project "no template available yet" in friendly word to your boss, something like:

I am afraid we are running a little bit behind schedule. The layout keeps changing rather iteratively; we can continue like this, but we will not be ready as planned. It would help a great deal if we had an approved lay-outed and styled template available, that would make consistent demonstration and testing much easier.

ZibbobzZibbobz 7,16852657 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 13:07:16Z

Take Control of the Change Process

Your co-worker, who I assume is not your supervisor or you would say so, is monopolizing your time in order to micro-manage this project. Not only is it adversely affecting you with stress, it is wasting project time and causing severe delays in delivery of the project.

You need to take control of the project, or they will continuously pester you to make minor changes.

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Your first objective is that you need a web template - even if you aren't a graphics designer, you should know what the template needs to look like. Set up a meeting, provide an email notice about said meeting, and come prepared to draw out the details of the template. 30 minutes, each day, until the template is complete.

If the co-worker tries to pressure you for details before or after the meeting, tell them to bring them to the next meeting. Do not provide any answers outside of that meeting. If you must have details clarified, use email, and insist that they use email as well. Be firm about this - be a broken record if you must. They will, hopefully quickly, learn that they cannot waste your time or their own by constantly providing needless input.

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

This is the most important part - limiting this type of input to meetings and emails will reduce your stress, but you still need to get the work done. Anything they provide concretely through meeting discussion or email should be worked on right away. You do not want to be the road block that prevents this project from going forward - so don't be. Work on what is solidly agreed upon. No more, no less.

Your time is valuable - their time is valuable - and you both need to make the most of it. They aren't, so it's up to you to take charge and provide some semblance of structure to the work day.

That being said, it is normal to sometimes come by each other's desk to discuss details that are important in the moment. You may have to walk to their desk to get clarification on some points as well. You will need to work on handling the stress of interacting with others in unplanned situations, and set firm boundaries on when and how often that interaction should take place.

This will require a lot more fine-tuning, as the co-worker's limit for person-to-person interaction and your own are (very clearly) not the same. And as a developer, you require more focus and personal time than they do (apparently) on their own tasks.

Be polite, be professional, but be firm in your own personal and professional boundaries, and take control of them whenever possible.

As someone who still struggles with striking that balance - I wish you luck.

score 1 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 15:34:25Z

Whatever software you use for the changes, install it for your coworker and let them play around until they get it right. then check if their changes are okay and merge them into the product.

if they are not eager to learn, you are not eager to run. fallback to normal working conditions as mentioned in other answers, ask for the template, schedule normal finish date after more relevant tasks, tell them to ask your boss if they need it faster.

You cant just assume that everyone has the skill needed to make the changes. It's not just a matter of installing software. — Apr 26 at 12:40
mention of software was quickly and immediately shut down by the coworker. They don't want to ~complicate their life — Apr 26 at 14:10

KevinKevin 3,310822 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 18:16:08Z

I've got a bit of a different take on what's happening here. I think the difference is that the two of you have a drastically different ideal iteration length.

Keep in mind, "Doing Stuff" generally happens in a cycle:

Planning

Implementing

Getting Feedback

Repeat

This cycle can be very long - I've seen waterfall projects where it's months between customer review points.

And it can be quick - make a change, take a look, see if it works, then repeat. (In pair programming, this can be extremely rapid.)

There's no "right" answer. Fast cycles lets you get stuff done quicker (faster feedback, more responsive development, etc) but it has the downside of making the 'planning' part get too rushed and reducing your ability to do other things. Slow cycles let you plan well and devote your time among other projects... but it also means the project will take longer.

So your coworker. She wants very rapid cycle times. Five minutes - do a single change, let's see what it looks like, okay let's move on to the next change. You want a slower cycle - list all the changes you want, I'll do them all over a few days/weeks, and then get back to you with all the changes done.

Neither of you is "Right" - it's not right vs wrong. It'll help you moving forward if you realize where she's coming from: she wants a quick feedback cycle, and there are advantages to that. Don't get me wrong - I think you'd be wise to try to slow the cycle process down to something more reasonable from your side. But the interpersonal facet of this will be helped if you realize why she's doing what she's doing, and that she's not necessarily "wrong". She just wants a cycle length that's too short for your comfort - and fortunately, you can probably force a much longer cycle length by:

Dictating a frequency/time you'll accept update requests

Giving her a time when those updates will be performed and given back to her

mpasko256mpasko256 15416 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 16:42:44Z

I think that Mike already found the root cause of the problem. I just want to say a couple of words to expand it.

Be assertive! Enforce her to install the software required to do her job properly. This will enable her to shorten the "feedback loop" and make her do the job even faster because she would not need to wait for you to do requested changes.

You have to state things clear! If she refuses to install the software making silly excuses, then you also should refuse to do any "temporary changes" for her to even see it. She states that mentioned software will make her life difficult. Lets begin with the mention, that the lack of it already made yours difficult with her.

Instead, offer her some support in installing and operating mentioned software. I can imagine that she will have lot of technical problems initially bothering you even more than usually, but gradually, she will learn how to use it and she will eventually stop bothering you completely. Ask other colleagues for some help with supporting her with installing and using the software. It will "load-balance" itself evenly among all of you and cease to be perceivable issue.

Other side notes:

The discussion may look like:

Hi Dennismv, I need you to do some new changes I 'm working on recently.

Is it how it should look like in the final version?

I am not sure.

So let's install the development environment and see for yourself.

I would like not do do it! It will take lot of time and make life too complicated... [smiles gently]

I'm sorry to say it [her name], but I would like you to stop using my setup to see output of your changes you are not sure how it actually look like.

It is just a couple of font adjustments. It should take you five minutes to apply them. Can you make this change today?

No, [her name] I won't make any further temporary changes. It already wasted lot of my time I should spent on other projects. It is your responsibility to provide me the final template. My responsibility is to just apply the final version that shouldn't be changed too often. Instead, I would like to invest my time to help you install and use the software because I believe that it will stop wasting my time in the future.

I can Imagine what she is actually thinking:

My task is to change the report, because it must look better.

I have a proposal of some changes, but I'm not sure how it will look like "in real".

I can not see it because I don't have required software.

I don't want to install it because it is too scary technical thing. It will make my life even more difficult.

Dennismv already installed it and can use it. Let make him apply my changes so I will see them.

Dennismv said that he will do it "later", so let go to kitchen for some coffee.

Dennismv didn't do it yet. Because it is my only thing to do in this job and my boss insisted it should be done yesterday, let go to Dennismv's desk and ask him gently again, when he will apply the changes so I could keep on progressing doing my own job...

Besides, there were similar situation im my previous job. Some "business people" approached our team with lots of "grammar/spelling/translation" issues on the company's main page.

Luckily there were two very smart developers in our team. They came up with the idea to provide a web browser plugin that allowed the "business people" to edit the translation file in runtime and see the results immediately.

After implementation of their plugin, instead of lot of small requests to fix small "defects", there were only requests to upload files provided by them with all needed changes. It made things easier and quicker for both sides.

score 0 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-27 22:52:29Z

You should not have let this situation continue for as long as you have. It's impacted both your productivity and your mental health - and either of these could have negative effects on your future with this company.

Go and talk to your boss immediately. Explain what a drain on your time this particular project is. Explain that you still don't have the template that your boss asked this woman to provide. Ask your boss what they want you to do about it.

It's possible that your boss will be pleased with the status quo, and instruct you to keep working with this woman the way you have been. If so, then get this in writing, to protect yourself from bad consequences at review time.

But that is very unlikely. It's certainly not what would happen if I were your boss. Far more likely is that your boss with tell you to stop immediately, and to tell this woman that you won't do any further work for her until she provides the required template.

If that's what happens, then the next time the woman comes to you with a request for a change, you'll be able to truthfully say "my boss has instructed me not to do any further work for you until you provide the template". Then the ball is in her court. If she continues to come to you with more changes after that, ask her politely to go and talk to your boss.

SquiddleXOSquiddleXO 78438 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-28 02:24:32Z

Tell her that you need to discuss these changes in detail to understand exactly what she wants, and ask her about scheduling a meeting. When giving your own availability, make sure the first time you're available is more than a day away. If she complains that you won't do it right now, explain that you are very busy, but she should try to organize her thoughts so she can make the best use of the time you do have.

If you do this consistently, after one, zero or more such meetings she will realize that she can't just walk over and ask you every little thing, but she has to expend some effort for every request. She will stop making trivial requests or bundle them together into a single big request. Either way, you will have put a hard limit on how much of your time she can take.

Since she is now force to sleep on her thoughts a few times, she will also make up her mind about her requests when making them, and not ask to reverse them the next day.

When (if) the meeting does happen, you can also debate the need for the changes, and ask her whether a given change is needed at all and if she's sure that is the change she wants. She will probably back off and stop asking for so many changes when she has to justify them. Even if she succeeds in justifying them, she won't be able to "change her mind" the next day because she already agreed that she's sure about the change.

If she complains that it's hard for her to imagine the result from just a single iteration, just direct her to the template, where she can see exactly what it would look like.

If she actually does persist in bringing you changes meeting after meeting, you can now ask her: "How many meetings should we have before we call this project done?" Whatever number you agree on, after that number of meetings is done, you can safely refuse her requests by appealing to the prior agreement. If she complains, you can explain that there's always infinitely many improvements that can be made in any project, but you don't have infinite time so you should focus on whichever ones are the most important and the rest won't be a big deal. Emphasize this in the meetings, by insisting she rank her requests from most important to least.

MylesMyles 29k865114 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 18:45:02Z

I think the crux of the situation is:

There is no template even though my boss asked her to provide one.

Next time she stops by, beat her to the punch and insist that you need the template to do your job before she even asks for the next iteration of request. When she derails the conversation with specifics of what she wants wholeheartedly agree that that should be a part of the template that she will provide you. Do not agree to provide this report again without a template unless you get specific instructions from your boss to do so. If you are feeling it, drop by her office unannounced and ask for the template that she was supposed to provide you.

As your boss is aware but not taking action, let them know that you will not be fulfilling future requests from this person unless proper business processes are followed.

+1 Stay firm. No template = no changes period. Say it in writing in an email that includes your boss if you have to. — Apr 25 at 18:52
If questioned on it, you can support the no-template-no-programming decision by pointing out that the current non-process is not working. — Apr 25 at 22:14
If you don't push back on inadequate specs or lack of resources, you'll never get good specs or the necessary resources. Learning to say no is a skill. — Apr 26 at 9:06
Also, make sure that all changes requested are documented and signed off formally - if nothing else, you don't want the finished project to be compared against the original spec that it no longer remotely resembles to determine your success! A paper trail to show the changes ensures that they are both testable, and you can use the volume and timescales to push back or escalate an issue (e.g. "the requirements for this component have been changed twice weekly for the past month - hence why it has not yet been completed") — Apr 26 at 10:32
It's also worth investigating why the requestor hasn't been doing the template in the first place... For example, if the software they use to do the template is not good, or they aren't good at using it, that could be remedied. Or if they're just a "think out loud" person, scheduling a recurring meeting where you work on the template together would help (the OP says that the OP is not a graphic/UI designer, if there IS a designer on the team then that person should also be involved in the meetings). — Apr 26 at 13:28

score 71 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 19:41:20Z

71

When she talks to me my anxiety goes through the roof. I have to use
controlled breathing while imagining murdering her in a variety of
ways. This is bad.

You should be discussing this part with a mental health professional.

They can advise strategies and/or medication to help you cope with your anxiety, since you find it so severe.

What do I do exactly because even in my infinite wisdom I kept a poker
face telling her grits teeth "okay I will implement those changes" In
reality though I am also done with this project, even before she
started. She is keeping me from advancing to other more important
projects.

You should be discussing this part with your boss.

Together you should decide how far you should be going to please this coworker (and any other consumer of your work). And together you should decide how to deal with them when they want more than you are authorized by your boss to give.

edited Apr 26 at 19:41

answered Apr 25 at 18:36

Joe Strazzere

258k1337541068

44

You should be discussing this part with your medical professional. --- this is key.

– Mister Positive♦
Apr 25 at 18:45

3

Being in a meeting room with her, activated my "fight or flight instinct", which I didn't know how to deal with, and could not come up with a plan to deal with it on the fly. Hence I processed the fight part as imagining various ways of murder, and for the flight part I desperately wanted/needed to get away from that situation altogether, but I could not find socially appropriate ways to do so, hence it raised my anxiety and created labored breathing - upon noticing which, I tried to pay attention to it and control it. Certainly something I can discuss with a psychotherapist for further input

– dennismv
Apr 25 at 20:52

10

While I agree with this up to a point, if someone walked up to you and kicked you in the shin repeatedly, you would get angry. That anger would not be a medical issue, it would be an entirely normal response. Likewise, there are some workplace situations that just suck. My answer to the OP would only repeat Myles's answer above, but I see this issue as that the OP feels totally helpless because he is not proactively addressing the situation, and he is becoming angry / anxious due to that; the issue is not that he feels angry / anxious per se.

– Joe Stevens
Apr 26 at 13:26

4

@JoeStrazzere I think you are underestimating the stress and tension that workplace situations, if improperly handled, can cause. It is, of course, not normal, to allow someone who entirely lacks focus and entirely lacks planning free reign over your working day. But, one can easily see if that were allowed it would lead to stress and anxiety. The OP needs to better manage his workload, not get medical help to be calm while he allows someone else to cause havoc with it.

– Joe Stevens
Apr 26 at 17:01

5

This answer would probably be better with "your mental health professional", to weaken the strong connection between "medical professional" and "medication".

– Timbo
Apr 26 at 19:10

|
show 3 more comments

score 14 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 20:17:56Z

She is keeping me from advancing to other more important projects.

That should be important to the organization's leadership. So, you will hopefully have your manager's support when you set a firm deadline beyond which further edits cannot be made.

Here's an example. "I am unable to make any additional changes to this document after [insert the day of your choice, including today]. Please make sure to give me a complete list of all the final edits you'd like before then."

If they have a change after that deadline, take it to your manager and let them know how and why the situation is preventing you from addressing more important projects.

I would go further and say: "I have built this exactly as you asked me to and we have iterated on it multiple times. It is ready to be released as is whenever you want. If you have change requests, please talk to my manager since I am working on other tasks at the moment". — Apr 26 at 17:00

score 9 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 18:54:21Z

How do I deal with a coworker that keeps asking to make small superficial changes to a report, and it is seriously triggering my anxiety?

Seems that this coworker is (1) not your boss and (2) bypassing the established procedure for the project development (template, given, implement it, repeat).

I suggest a two-step approach:

First, try to address and solve this with this coworker. Next time they ask you to make some changes, or asks you for a random meeting, try something like this:

Hello Joe, I am currently busy with Project A and B. Is this related to the Website Report Project? If so, and you wish some changes to be done, please send me the new template along with the changes listed via email, and I will get to it as soon as I can.

This way you are kindly steering them towards the correct development procedure, and making them aware that you have other, important projects to do.

If this fails, the next step is to bring this up to your boss. A professional way to phrase it I can think of is:

Hello Boss. Lately Joe has been asking me several changes regarding the Website Report Project. I am aware that I also have Projects A, B and C to work on, so I want to ask you if I should give this Report project priority over the others.

Regardless, could you please send us an email indicating how the development procedure should be? I understand I should be provided with a template, and only after that I can proceed to make the changes. Is this correct, boss?

This way you are also politely steering your coworker to the proper development procedure, by having your boss remind you two how it should be. After this, if your coworker insists on out-of-procedure changes, you can safely point them to your boss's indication and ask them to follow the standard procedure.

EchoxEchox 2114 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 21:56:41Z

It's weird, I see no answer addressing what I feel is the core of the problem so I'm adding my own :

What do I do exactly because even I kept a poker face telling her while gritting teeth: "okay I can/will implement those changes"

By agreeing each time to the demands of your coworker, you enable her behavior and she'll feel unconsciously encouraged to keep doing things the way she does it.

So if someone, anyone (even your boss) keeps interrupting you for small things and for bad reasons until it makes you unable to work correctly and even stresses you out, you need first to be able to say "No, it's not possible".

Once you've done that, of course you can start discussing better processes or what are the correct channels to do thing, as stated in the other answers. The point is not to block everything, just to make them understand that their ways are unproductive and/or just bothering you (which is sometimes something they just weren't aware of and will comply quite nicely once they are).

So concurred. A hard "No" or even a soft "I too am feeling over-burdened with this project. I want to stop working on it to other more interesting work. I think we should release it as BETA and see if the user-base has feedback on it. Let's set the feedback period for a month and revisit it after you've gone through all the feedback" might be the next best response. — Apr 26 at 20:14
Inhaftiert the same reaction, tell people when they are not welcome or why their requests have low prio. — Apr 27 at 14:33

BSMPBSMP 3,8891428 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 19:31:27Z

Other answers have already covered insisting on getting the template and talking to your boss about how to prioritize this work (including getting a deadline).

Once the template exists, schedule a time to meet with her and then only discuss changes during that meeting. This way you aren't getting randomly pulled away from more important work multiple times a day. When she tries to get you to drop everything for a change to the template, say you can discuss it at the meeting:

We'll have to talk about that during our meeting.

We can go over your new template at the meeting.

We can talk about time estimates at the meeting.

We're meeting about that at [day/time], let's talk about it then.

omg, I am "so done" with this project

You can try to discourage this by saying things like:

I like to try to stay positive about our work.

Having the template and regular meetings will make this easier to finish.

Let's focus on wrapping this up.

If the report is essentially done, you can point this out when she says she complains:

Actually, I think this looks good. Are you ready to wrap up with project?

The report looks complete. Is there anything preventing us from saying this is done?

Since these responses invite discussion, only use them if she complains during the meeting.

I disagree with the stereotypical office way of solving problems: I see there is a problem so lets schedule a meeting and discuss 2 hours about how to solve it As I can see, the woman causing the problem is thinking in the same way and is wasting OP's time even more. Short email with just ready template and list of changes made recently might be good solution to the problem. — Apr 26 at 14:33
@mpasko256 I'm not suggesting that the OP sit with their co-worker for 2 whole hours. I'm saying that setting up a pre-planned meeting is a good way of shutting down the random impromptu meetings. I agree that this is the sort of thing that should be doable via email but it really sounds like this coworker is going to want to talk about it anyway. Rather than risk her complaining to the boss that OP refuses to meet/talk with her, meet once and be done with it. — Apr 26 at 16:58
What do I do when she scheduled a meeting to follow up on the changes to be made? This will be our 4th meeting, like this. and I don't want the meeting to reduce to "Okay, did you make this bigger/smaller? I don't think it looks professional, what else can we change, what do you think?" etc.. I'm guessing I need to insist on getting a template before the meeting exists? She was pushing back on having a template, saying she "just needs to make a few final changes" to where a template won't help. i.e. creating entire template when a few changes remain is something I'd have to fight for — Apr 29 at 19:19
I'm guessing I need to insist on getting a template before the meeting exists? @dennismv Yes, absolutely. She needs to have a template with all the changes that need to happen before this meeting can happen. There's no point in meeting is she isn't sure what needs changing yet. When she tries to make that argument about a few final changes, point out that she's said this multiple times before and that doing a lot of small changes piecemeal like this is not a good use of your time. — Apr 29 at 19:49

SuperSecretAndHiddenFromWorkSuperSecretAndHiddenFromWork 1733 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 10:54:21Z

I programmatically make PDFs of content on a site and suffer from exactly the same issue as you, although it's my director that requests these multiple and minute changes all day long

What it boiled down to is her using my output for 'testing': they want to see the report on the system, critique it, then make changes

What solved the problem for me was doing:

Exaggerating the amount of work it is to make a small change. So saying "I can do this, but it will require a lot of other backend changes", coupled with:

Repeating the changes back to them and asking them to confirm, then giving your own deadline of "for tomorrow" and avoid agreeing to do something immediately or that day

When they come back later and ask for a change again, say "i'll have to redo the functions to implement that and so will miss the deadline" meaning that either I carry on with what was agreed, or i'll miss the deadline that was agreed upon

Another idea I think could work for you is saying that the project is taking too long and now you need to log your activity on it. So you'll now be logging all her "requests" as time spent on this project

I'd love to upvote your final paragraph, but I can't because your three points before it propose lying about what you do at your job. No matter how good the intentions behind the lies that's a really unethical response to a horrible situation in my opinion. — Apr 26 at 13:16
It's not necessarily a fixed lie in my opinion. Surely sometimes when implementing something, unexpected problems arise and so it's good practice to overestimate timings. As a programmer i've heard it's common practice to say something will take a day, since you might not have anticipated a bug manifesting itself. We point 3, I suppose you technically are redoing the functions for the formatting. Basically my point is to 'scare off' the request with correct, albeit intimidating language — Apr 26 at 13:39
In the case that logging time against it was happening anyway, reminding them how much time you've already spent on it could work. "I've logged X hours against this, this change will take another Y." — Apr 26 at 17:01

bilbo_pingouinbilbo_pingouin 1,47711016 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 12:11:13Z

It seems that you have already found the answer you were looking for, but it might be interesting to others.

I had a somewhat similar situation, where commercials where constantly contacting the developers with features requests, new bugs, etc. without any kind of prioritizing. And always strict deadline: "for yesterday, very important customer". As a result the code quality and progress was strongly limited.

What we did was install a ticketing system (JIRA), and a change process. And be firm in insisting they use those:

Sorry, but until there is a change request in the system, I can't work on it.

The process could be a weekly/bi-weekly meeting with your boss to decide what needs to get in, what doesn't, and set priorities accordingly.

This all will ask as a buffer. They will ask much less changes if they have to "work" for it (fill a form) and wait until they get back their change. That way, you (together with your boss) set the rhythm, not the "customer" (or in that case your colleague).

+1. The ticketing system provides visibility to your boss and her boss on the requests being made. If these changes are as inconsequential as OP has stated, then someone should be able to see all the tiny requests she is putting in and ask, "Do we really need our highly paid developer spending time reducing the title font size from 32 to 30, or is there something more critical they could be doing?" — Apr 26 at 20:32

SaschaSascha 9,86222443 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-25 18:45:35Z

There is no template even though my boss asked her to provide one.

Ok, she doesn't deliver what your boss wants? His Problem (and then your colleagues), not yours - if you report on the project state openly.

When she talks to me my anxiety goes through the roof. I have to use controlled breathing while imagining murdering her in a variety of ways. This is bad.

No, thats not unusual, as long as the imagined ways of murdering her are fast and painless. But much better would be if you imagine to (and do) report the status of the project "no template available yet" in friendly word to your boss, something like:

I am afraid we are running a little bit behind schedule. The layout keeps changing rather iteratively; we can continue like this, but we will not be ready as planned. It would help a great deal if we had an approved lay-outed and styled template available, that would make consistent demonstration and testing much easier.

ZibbobzZibbobz 7,16852657 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 13:07:16Z

Take Control of the Change Process

Your co-worker, who I assume is not your supervisor or you would say so, is monopolizing your time in order to micro-manage this project. Not only is it adversely affecting you with stress, it is wasting project time and causing severe delays in delivery of the project.

You need to take control of the project, or they will continuously pester you to make minor changes.

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Your first objective is that you need a web template - even if you aren't a graphics designer, you should know what the template needs to look like. Set up a meeting, provide an email notice about said meeting, and come prepared to draw out the details of the template. 30 minutes, each day, until the template is complete.

If the co-worker tries to pressure you for details before or after the meeting, tell them to bring them to the next meeting. Do not provide any answers outside of that meeting. If you must have details clarified, use email, and insist that they use email as well. Be firm about this - be a broken record if you must. They will, hopefully quickly, learn that they cannot waste your time or their own by constantly providing needless input.

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

This is the most important part - limiting this type of input to meetings and emails will reduce your stress, but you still need to get the work done. Anything they provide concretely through meeting discussion or email should be worked on right away. You do not want to be the road block that prevents this project from going forward - so don't be. Work on what is solidly agreed upon. No more, no less.

Your time is valuable - their time is valuable - and you both need to make the most of it. They aren't, so it's up to you to take charge and provide some semblance of structure to the work day.

That being said, it is normal to sometimes come by each other's desk to discuss details that are important in the moment. You may have to walk to their desk to get clarification on some points as well. You will need to work on handling the stress of interacting with others in unplanned situations, and set firm boundaries on when and how often that interaction should take place.

This will require a lot more fine-tuning, as the co-worker's limit for person-to-person interaction and your own are (very clearly) not the same. And as a developer, you require more focus and personal time than they do (apparently) on their own tasks.

Be polite, be professional, but be firm in your own personal and professional boundaries, and take control of them whenever possible.

As someone who still struggles with striking that balance - I wish you luck.

score 1 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 15:34:25Z

Whatever software you use for the changes, install it for your coworker and let them play around until they get it right. then check if their changes are okay and merge them into the product.

if they are not eager to learn, you are not eager to run. fallback to normal working conditions as mentioned in other answers, ask for the template, schedule normal finish date after more relevant tasks, tell them to ask your boss if they need it faster.

You cant just assume that everyone has the skill needed to make the changes. It's not just a matter of installing software. — Apr 26 at 12:40
mention of software was quickly and immediately shut down by the coworker. They don't want to ~complicate their life — Apr 26 at 14:10

KevinKevin 3,310822 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 18:16:08Z

I've got a bit of a different take on what's happening here. I think the difference is that the two of you have a drastically different ideal iteration length.

Keep in mind, "Doing Stuff" generally happens in a cycle:

Planning

Implementing

Getting Feedback

Repeat

This cycle can be very long - I've seen waterfall projects where it's months between customer review points.

And it can be quick - make a change, take a look, see if it works, then repeat. (In pair programming, this can be extremely rapid.)

There's no "right" answer. Fast cycles lets you get stuff done quicker (faster feedback, more responsive development, etc) but it has the downside of making the 'planning' part get too rushed and reducing your ability to do other things. Slow cycles let you plan well and devote your time among other projects... but it also means the project will take longer.

So your coworker. She wants very rapid cycle times. Five minutes - do a single change, let's see what it looks like, okay let's move on to the next change. You want a slower cycle - list all the changes you want, I'll do them all over a few days/weeks, and then get back to you with all the changes done.

Neither of you is "Right" - it's not right vs wrong. It'll help you moving forward if you realize where she's coming from: she wants a quick feedback cycle, and there are advantages to that. Don't get me wrong - I think you'd be wise to try to slow the cycle process down to something more reasonable from your side. But the interpersonal facet of this will be helped if you realize why she's doing what she's doing, and that she's not necessarily "wrong". She just wants a cycle length that's too short for your comfort - and fortunately, you can probably force a much longer cycle length by:

Dictating a frequency/time you'll accept update requests

Giving her a time when those updates will be performed and given back to her

mpasko256mpasko256 15416 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-26 16:42:44Z

I think that Mike already found the root cause of the problem. I just want to say a couple of words to expand it.

Be assertive! Enforce her to install the software required to do her job properly. This will enable her to shorten the "feedback loop" and make her do the job even faster because she would not need to wait for you to do requested changes.

You have to state things clear! If she refuses to install the software making silly excuses, then you also should refuse to do any "temporary changes" for her to even see it. She states that mentioned software will make her life difficult. Lets begin with the mention, that the lack of it already made yours difficult with her.

Instead, offer her some support in installing and operating mentioned software. I can imagine that she will have lot of technical problems initially bothering you even more than usually, but gradually, she will learn how to use it and she will eventually stop bothering you completely. Ask other colleagues for some help with supporting her with installing and using the software. It will "load-balance" itself evenly among all of you and cease to be perceivable issue.

Other side notes:

The discussion may look like:

Hi Dennismv, I need you to do some new changes I 'm working on recently.

Is it how it should look like in the final version?

I am not sure.

So let's install the development environment and see for yourself.

I would like not do do it! It will take lot of time and make life too complicated... [smiles gently]

I'm sorry to say it [her name], but I would like you to stop using my setup to see output of your changes you are not sure how it actually look like.

It is just a couple of font adjustments. It should take you five minutes to apply them. Can you make this change today?

No, [her name] I won't make any further temporary changes. It already wasted lot of my time I should spent on other projects. It is your responsibility to provide me the final template. My responsibility is to just apply the final version that shouldn't be changed too often. Instead, I would like to invest my time to help you install and use the software because I believe that it will stop wasting my time in the future.

I can Imagine what she is actually thinking:

My task is to change the report, because it must look better.

I have a proposal of some changes, but I'm not sure how it will look like "in real".

I can not see it because I don't have required software.

I don't want to install it because it is too scary technical thing. It will make my life even more difficult.

Dennismv already installed it and can use it. Let make him apply my changes so I will see them.

Dennismv said that he will do it "later", so let go to kitchen for some coffee.

Dennismv didn't do it yet. Because it is my only thing to do in this job and my boss insisted it should be done yesterday, let go to Dennismv's desk and ask him gently again, when he will apply the changes so I could keep on progressing doing my own job...

Besides, there were similar situation im my previous job. Some "business people" approached our team with lots of "grammar/spelling/translation" issues on the company's main page.

Luckily there were two very smart developers in our team. They came up with the idea to provide a web browser plugin that allowed the "business people" to edit the translation file in runtime and see the results immediately.

After implementation of their plugin, instead of lot of small requests to fix small "defects", there were only requests to upload files provided by them with all needed changes. It made things easier and quicker for both sides.

score 0 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-27 22:52:29Z

You should not have let this situation continue for as long as you have. It's impacted both your productivity and your mental health - and either of these could have negative effects on your future with this company.

Go and talk to your boss immediately. Explain what a drain on your time this particular project is. Explain that you still don't have the template that your boss asked this woman to provide. Ask your boss what they want you to do about it.

It's possible that your boss will be pleased with the status quo, and instruct you to keep working with this woman the way you have been. If so, then get this in writing, to protect yourself from bad consequences at review time.

But that is very unlikely. It's certainly not what would happen if I were your boss. Far more likely is that your boss with tell you to stop immediately, and to tell this woman that you won't do any further work for her until she provides the required template.

If that's what happens, then the next time the woman comes to you with a request for a change, you'll be able to truthfully say "my boss has instructed me not to do any further work for you until you provide the template". Then the ball is in her court. If she continues to come to you with more changes after that, ask her politely to go and talk to your boss.

SquiddleXOSquiddleXO 78438 · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-28 02:24:32Z

Tell her that you need to discuss these changes in detail to understand exactly what she wants, and ask her about scheduling a meeting. When giving your own availability, make sure the first time you're available is more than a day away. If she complains that you won't do it right now, explain that you are very busy, but she should try to organize her thoughts so she can make the best use of the time you do have.

If you do this consistently, after one, zero or more such meetings she will realize that she can't just walk over and ask you every little thing, but she has to expend some effort for every request. She will stop making trivial requests or bundle them together into a single big request. Either way, you will have put a hard limit on how much of your time she can take.

Since she is now force to sleep on her thoughts a few times, she will also make up her mind about her requests when making them, and not ask to reverse them the next day.

When (if) the meeting does happen, you can also debate the need for the changes, and ask her whether a given change is needed at all and if she's sure that is the change she wants. She will probably back off and stop asking for so many changes when she has to justify them. Even if she succeeds in justifying them, she won't be able to "change her mind" the next day because she already agreed that she's sure about the change.

If she complains that it's hard for her to imagine the result from just a single iteration, just direct her to the template, where she can see exactly what it would look like.

If she actually does persist in bringing you changes meeting after meeting, you can now ask her: "How many meetings should we have before we call this project done?" Whatever number you agree on, after that number of meetings is done, you can safely refuse her requests by appealing to the prior agreement. If she complains, you can explain that there's always infinitely many improvements that can be made in any project, but you don't have infinite time so you should focus on whichever ones are the most important and the rest won't be a big deal. Emphasize this in the meetings, by insisting she rank her requests from most important to least.

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15 Answers
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Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

protected by Mister Positive♦ Apr 26 at 13:32

15 Answers
15

15 Answers
15

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

protected by Mister Positive♦ Apr 26 at 13:32

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15 Answers 15

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

protected by Mister Positive♦ Apr 26 at 13:32

15 Answers 15

15 Answers 15

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

Take Control of the Change Process

Set Your Own Meeting With Clear Objectives

Do Whatever Work They Do Provide, Properly And On Time

protected by Mister Positive♦ Apr 26 at 13:32

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