How to notate time signature switching consistently every measure Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Different Simile MarksIs the time signature switching every measure?3/2 Time signatureHow to notate a time signature that alternates every few measures?Changing Time SignatureCounting a time signatureMeter and time signature headacheAssessing the time signature of a single measureTime signature problems in Debussy's “Clair de lune”How do I notate a staccato on a unison note?How to identify time signature from notation
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How to notate time signature switching consistently every measure
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Different Simile MarksIs the time signature switching every measure?3/2 Time signatureHow to notate a time signature that alternates every few measures?Changing Time SignatureCounting a time signatureMeter and time signature headacheAssessing the time signature of a single measureTime signature problems in Debussy's “Clair de lune”How do I notate a staccato on a unison note?How to identify time signature from notation
It seems my musical journey's always pushing me into left field territory when it comes to notation ... So this time I'd like to know what would be a good way to notate a consistent switching of time signature every measure.
The piece I'm writing constantly alternates between 5/4 and 3/4, however I think it would be very tiring to read - I assume - if it's written like this:
Should I just mention it at the beginning (If so, how?) and leave out the time signatures? E.g. giving me a score like this:
As you can see that's quite confusing too, since even though the time signature's hidden, there's some space left open. But that's maybe just a limitation of Musescore...
Or maybe I should just go with 8/4 and explain the counting, something like "5+3"?
notation time-signatures meter engraving
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
|
show 3 more comments
It seems my musical journey's always pushing me into left field territory when it comes to notation ... So this time I'd like to know what would be a good way to notate a consistent switching of time signature every measure.
The piece I'm writing constantly alternates between 5/4 and 3/4, however I think it would be very tiring to read - I assume - if it's written like this:
Should I just mention it at the beginning (If so, how?) and leave out the time signatures? E.g. giving me a score like this:
As you can see that's quite confusing too, since even though the time signature's hidden, there's some space left open. But that's maybe just a limitation of Musescore...
Or maybe I should just go with 8/4 and explain the counting, something like "5+3"?
notation time-signatures meter engraving
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
4
...or write it in either 8/4 or even just 4/4 & accent the appropriate beat, with some kind of similie instruction at the top. I know i'd be far more comfortable thinking in terms of "every 2nd bar accent the 2"
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:07
Could you give an example of how you would write that down @Tetsujin?
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:16
I don't have a scoring app here so I can't do it graphically, sorry - but I'd start out just with something like "Treat as though 5/4+3/4, then over the first couple of bars, I'd add > over the relevant '6th note' for the first few bars & write similie in the next bar. [I have to admit I'm treating it more like a rock band forming a groove/feel than an orchestra reading the dots.]
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:35
Just for the record, it's certainly not unknown to write a new time signature at the start of every bar - e.g. sheetmusicnow.com/products/… Having said that, I've also seen this song notated in 5/4.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:43
8/4 is a good way to go. you don't really have to explain the beat. it would be implied from the music itself.
– Ringo
Apr 10 at 17:39
|
show 3 more comments
It seems my musical journey's always pushing me into left field territory when it comes to notation ... So this time I'd like to know what would be a good way to notate a consistent switching of time signature every measure.
The piece I'm writing constantly alternates between 5/4 and 3/4, however I think it would be very tiring to read - I assume - if it's written like this:
Should I just mention it at the beginning (If so, how?) and leave out the time signatures? E.g. giving me a score like this:
As you can see that's quite confusing too, since even though the time signature's hidden, there's some space left open. But that's maybe just a limitation of Musescore...
Or maybe I should just go with 8/4 and explain the counting, something like "5+3"?
notation time-signatures meter engraving
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
It seems my musical journey's always pushing me into left field territory when it comes to notation ... So this time I'd like to know what would be a good way to notate a consistent switching of time signature every measure.
The piece I'm writing constantly alternates between 5/4 and 3/4, however I think it would be very tiring to read - I assume - if it's written like this:
Should I just mention it at the beginning (If so, how?) and leave out the time signatures? E.g. giving me a score like this:
As you can see that's quite confusing too, since even though the time signature's hidden, there's some space left open. But that's maybe just a limitation of Musescore...
Or maybe I should just go with 8/4 and explain the counting, something like "5+3"?
notation time-signatures meter engraving
notation time-signatures meter engraving
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
edited Apr 10 at 12:56
Richard
45.8k7110196
45.8k7110196
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
asked Apr 10 at 12:00
CreyndersCreynders
8071415
8071415
4
...or write it in either 8/4 or even just 4/4 & accent the appropriate beat, with some kind of similie instruction at the top. I know i'd be far more comfortable thinking in terms of "every 2nd bar accent the 2"
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:07
Could you give an example of how you would write that down @Tetsujin?
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:16
I don't have a scoring app here so I can't do it graphically, sorry - but I'd start out just with something like "Treat as though 5/4+3/4, then over the first couple of bars, I'd add > over the relevant '6th note' for the first few bars & write similie in the next bar. [I have to admit I'm treating it more like a rock band forming a groove/feel than an orchestra reading the dots.]
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:35
Just for the record, it's certainly not unknown to write a new time signature at the start of every bar - e.g. sheetmusicnow.com/products/… Having said that, I've also seen this song notated in 5/4.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:43
8/4 is a good way to go. you don't really have to explain the beat. it would be implied from the music itself.
– Ringo
Apr 10 at 17:39
|
show 3 more comments
4
...or write it in either 8/4 or even just 4/4 & accent the appropriate beat, with some kind of similie instruction at the top. I know i'd be far more comfortable thinking in terms of "every 2nd bar accent the 2"
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:07
Could you give an example of how you would write that down @Tetsujin?
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:16
I don't have a scoring app here so I can't do it graphically, sorry - but I'd start out just with something like "Treat as though 5/4+3/4, then over the first couple of bars, I'd add > over the relevant '6th note' for the first few bars & write similie in the next bar. [I have to admit I'm treating it more like a rock band forming a groove/feel than an orchestra reading the dots.]
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:35
Just for the record, it's certainly not unknown to write a new time signature at the start of every bar - e.g. sheetmusicnow.com/products/… Having said that, I've also seen this song notated in 5/4.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:43
8/4 is a good way to go. you don't really have to explain the beat. it would be implied from the music itself.
– Ringo
Apr 10 at 17:39
4
4
...or write it in either 8/4 or even just 4/4 & accent the appropriate beat, with some kind of similie instruction at the top. I know i'd be far more comfortable thinking in terms of "every 2nd bar accent the 2"
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:07
...or write it in either 8/4 or even just 4/4 & accent the appropriate beat, with some kind of similie instruction at the top. I know i'd be far more comfortable thinking in terms of "every 2nd bar accent the 2"
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:07
Could you give an example of how you would write that down @Tetsujin?
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:16
Could you give an example of how you would write that down @Tetsujin?
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:16
I don't have a scoring app here so I can't do it graphically, sorry - but I'd start out just with something like "Treat as though 5/4+3/4, then over the first couple of bars, I'd add > over the relevant '6th note' for the first few bars & write similie in the next bar. [I have to admit I'm treating it more like a rock band forming a groove/feel than an orchestra reading the dots.]
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:35
I don't have a scoring app here so I can't do it graphically, sorry - but I'd start out just with something like "Treat as though 5/4+3/4, then over the first couple of bars, I'd add > over the relevant '6th note' for the first few bars & write similie in the next bar. [I have to admit I'm treating it more like a rock band forming a groove/feel than an orchestra reading the dots.]
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:35
Just for the record, it's certainly not unknown to write a new time signature at the start of every bar - e.g. sheetmusicnow.com/products/… Having said that, I've also seen this song notated in 5/4.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:43
Just for the record, it's certainly not unknown to write a new time signature at the start of every bar - e.g. sheetmusicnow.com/products/… Having said that, I've also seen this song notated in 5/4.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:43
8/4 is a good way to go. you don't really have to explain the beat. it would be implied from the music itself.
– Ringo
Apr 10 at 17:39
8/4 is a good way to go. you don't really have to explain the beat. it would be implied from the music itself.
– Ringo
Apr 10 at 17:39
|
show 3 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Yes, one possible way is to clarify a "5+3" meter throughout. Depending on the music, this could be preferable to just writing 8/4 if the meter is clearly a 5+3 layout.
As one example of how this could be done, consider something like:
Notice that, in the second full measure, a dotted barline shows the distinction between the 5/4 and 3/4 portions of the meter. This is optional; I've seen music like this notated with and without that dotted barline (or something equivalent to it).
As a very similar alternative, you can also notate it without repeating the bottom portion of the time signature:
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
7
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
add a comment |
One way which is possible is to show two time signatures, as here from Tchaikovsky's second String Quartet via Popflock:
This warns the user that bars of each length are to be expected.
You haven't tagged the question MuseScore, but MuseScore does allow bars of varying length without having to put a time signature in every time. Right-click the bar, select "Bar properties..." and set the number of beats that bar should have. I think it's intended to allow the last bar to be balanced with an anacrusis at the beginning of a piece, but it works elsewhere.
Unfortunately while this makes it possible to have bars of different lengths, MuseScore can't show more than one time signature at the start.
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
add a comment |
As a possible alterative to Richard's answer, you can write the total in the time signature and the division above the staff like this:
This may be easier, depending on the capabilities of your notation software. However, it does imply that the divisions are the fundamental beats. In this case that is four beats to the bar, with beats 1, 2, and 4 being longer than beat 3. But in the original question the beats are implied to be all equal quarter notes.
However, that might prompt you to ask whether this is actually true? Or are the intended groupings really 3+2+3 (or even 2+3+3)? After all, 5/4 is almost always 3+2 or 2+3.
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
1
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
add a comment |
Most of the mixed-meter scores I've seen use non-dotted measure lines as well (and no "+" sign between the paired meter notations.) . It's just treated as "we will always be switching meter every bar" . See for example West Side Story "America" where it goes into 6/8-3/4 swap time.
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
8
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
1
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
1
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
3
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
1
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
|
show 2 more comments
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Yes, one possible way is to clarify a "5+3" meter throughout. Depending on the music, this could be preferable to just writing 8/4 if the meter is clearly a 5+3 layout.
As one example of how this could be done, consider something like:
Notice that, in the second full measure, a dotted barline shows the distinction between the 5/4 and 3/4 portions of the meter. This is optional; I've seen music like this notated with and without that dotted barline (or something equivalent to it).
As a very similar alternative, you can also notate it without repeating the bottom portion of the time signature:
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
7
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
add a comment |
Yes, one possible way is to clarify a "5+3" meter throughout. Depending on the music, this could be preferable to just writing 8/4 if the meter is clearly a 5+3 layout.
As one example of how this could be done, consider something like:
Notice that, in the second full measure, a dotted barline shows the distinction between the 5/4 and 3/4 portions of the meter. This is optional; I've seen music like this notated with and without that dotted barline (or something equivalent to it).
As a very similar alternative, you can also notate it without repeating the bottom portion of the time signature:
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
7
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
add a comment |
Yes, one possible way is to clarify a "5+3" meter throughout. Depending on the music, this could be preferable to just writing 8/4 if the meter is clearly a 5+3 layout.
As one example of how this could be done, consider something like:
Notice that, in the second full measure, a dotted barline shows the distinction between the 5/4 and 3/4 portions of the meter. This is optional; I've seen music like this notated with and without that dotted barline (or something equivalent to it).
As a very similar alternative, you can also notate it without repeating the bottom portion of the time signature:
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
Yes, one possible way is to clarify a "5+3" meter throughout. Depending on the music, this could be preferable to just writing 8/4 if the meter is clearly a 5+3 layout.
As one example of how this could be done, consider something like:
Notice that, in the second full measure, a dotted barline shows the distinction between the 5/4 and 3/4 portions of the meter. This is optional; I've seen music like this notated with and without that dotted barline (or something equivalent to it).
As a very similar alternative, you can also notate it without repeating the bottom portion of the time signature:
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
edited Apr 10 at 12:10
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
answered Apr 10 at 12:07
RichardRichard
45.8k7110196
45.8k7110196
7
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
add a comment |
7
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
7
7
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
Especially the dotted bar line will make sense in some places, where one of the instruments goes against the ebb and flow feeling
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:10
add a comment |
One way which is possible is to show two time signatures, as here from Tchaikovsky's second String Quartet via Popflock:
This warns the user that bars of each length are to be expected.
You haven't tagged the question MuseScore, but MuseScore does allow bars of varying length without having to put a time signature in every time. Right-click the bar, select "Bar properties..." and set the number of beats that bar should have. I think it's intended to allow the last bar to be balanced with an anacrusis at the beginning of a piece, but it works elsewhere.
Unfortunately while this makes it possible to have bars of different lengths, MuseScore can't show more than one time signature at the start.
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
add a comment |
One way which is possible is to show two time signatures, as here from Tchaikovsky's second String Quartet via Popflock:
This warns the user that bars of each length are to be expected.
You haven't tagged the question MuseScore, but MuseScore does allow bars of varying length without having to put a time signature in every time. Right-click the bar, select "Bar properties..." and set the number of beats that bar should have. I think it's intended to allow the last bar to be balanced with an anacrusis at the beginning of a piece, but it works elsewhere.
Unfortunately while this makes it possible to have bars of different lengths, MuseScore can't show more than one time signature at the start.
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
add a comment |
One way which is possible is to show two time signatures, as here from Tchaikovsky's second String Quartet via Popflock:
This warns the user that bars of each length are to be expected.
You haven't tagged the question MuseScore, but MuseScore does allow bars of varying length without having to put a time signature in every time. Right-click the bar, select "Bar properties..." and set the number of beats that bar should have. I think it's intended to allow the last bar to be balanced with an anacrusis at the beginning of a piece, but it works elsewhere.
Unfortunately while this makes it possible to have bars of different lengths, MuseScore can't show more than one time signature at the start.
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
One way which is possible is to show two time signatures, as here from Tchaikovsky's second String Quartet via Popflock:
This warns the user that bars of each length are to be expected.
You haven't tagged the question MuseScore, but MuseScore does allow bars of varying length without having to put a time signature in every time. Right-click the bar, select "Bar properties..." and set the number of beats that bar should have. I think it's intended to allow the last bar to be balanced with an anacrusis at the beginning of a piece, but it works elsewhere.
Unfortunately while this makes it possible to have bars of different lengths, MuseScore can't show more than one time signature at the start.
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
answered Apr 10 at 15:11
Andrew LeachAndrew Leach
51729
51729
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
add a comment |
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
You can do it, if you cheat a bit. You'd need to put the second time signature in a second measure, and then set the "leading space" to be negative enough to position the second one beside the first, and then manually re-position anything that is in the wrong place. You'd want to do it after you're finished with that line (and use a system break) so it doesn't move on you again. - - That said, it would be nice to have proper support.
– trlkly
Apr 11 at 0:57
add a comment |
As a possible alterative to Richard's answer, you can write the total in the time signature and the division above the staff like this:
This may be easier, depending on the capabilities of your notation software. However, it does imply that the divisions are the fundamental beats. In this case that is four beats to the bar, with beats 1, 2, and 4 being longer than beat 3. But in the original question the beats are implied to be all equal quarter notes.
However, that might prompt you to ask whether this is actually true? Or are the intended groupings really 3+2+3 (or even 2+3+3)? After all, 5/4 is almost always 3+2 or 2+3.
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
1
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
add a comment |
As a possible alterative to Richard's answer, you can write the total in the time signature and the division above the staff like this:
This may be easier, depending on the capabilities of your notation software. However, it does imply that the divisions are the fundamental beats. In this case that is four beats to the bar, with beats 1, 2, and 4 being longer than beat 3. But in the original question the beats are implied to be all equal quarter notes.
However, that might prompt you to ask whether this is actually true? Or are the intended groupings really 3+2+3 (or even 2+3+3)? After all, 5/4 is almost always 3+2 or 2+3.
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
1
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
add a comment |
As a possible alterative to Richard's answer, you can write the total in the time signature and the division above the staff like this:
This may be easier, depending on the capabilities of your notation software. However, it does imply that the divisions are the fundamental beats. In this case that is four beats to the bar, with beats 1, 2, and 4 being longer than beat 3. But in the original question the beats are implied to be all equal quarter notes.
However, that might prompt you to ask whether this is actually true? Or are the intended groupings really 3+2+3 (or even 2+3+3)? After all, 5/4 is almost always 3+2 or 2+3.
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
As a possible alterative to Richard's answer, you can write the total in the time signature and the division above the staff like this:
This may be easier, depending on the capabilities of your notation software. However, it does imply that the divisions are the fundamental beats. In this case that is four beats to the bar, with beats 1, 2, and 4 being longer than beat 3. But in the original question the beats are implied to be all equal quarter notes.
However, that might prompt you to ask whether this is actually true? Or are the intended groupings really 3+2+3 (or even 2+3+3)? After all, 5/4 is almost always 3+2 or 2+3.
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
answered Apr 10 at 14:35
Ian GoldbyIan Goldby
355110
355110
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
1
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
add a comment |
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
1
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
Nice point about 5 breaking down to 3's & 2's. Perhaps there will be cases where 3+2 or 2+3 isn't one constant pattern throughout, but when it is, it seems friendly to show the full additive breakdown.
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:44
1
1
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
I was going to add that the Derek Bourgeois piece "Serenade" used 11/8 and 13/8 used this (there’s a wind band version plus score on YouTube). I found it quite intuitive to read. But I think that’s your example!
– Pam
Apr 10 at 16:01
add a comment |
Most of the mixed-meter scores I've seen use non-dotted measure lines as well (and no "+" sign between the paired meter notations.) . It's just treated as "we will always be switching meter every bar" . See for example West Side Story "America" where it goes into 6/8-3/4 swap time.
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
8
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
1
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
1
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
3
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
1
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
|
show 2 more comments
Most of the mixed-meter scores I've seen use non-dotted measure lines as well (and no "+" sign between the paired meter notations.) . It's just treated as "we will always be switching meter every bar" . See for example West Side Story "America" where it goes into 6/8-3/4 swap time.
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
8
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
1
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
1
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
3
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
1
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
|
show 2 more comments
Most of the mixed-meter scores I've seen use non-dotted measure lines as well (and no "+" sign between the paired meter notations.) . It's just treated as "we will always be switching meter every bar" . See for example West Side Story "America" where it goes into 6/8-3/4 swap time.
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
Most of the mixed-meter scores I've seen use non-dotted measure lines as well (and no "+" sign between the paired meter notations.) . It's just treated as "we will always be switching meter every bar" . See for example West Side Story "America" where it goes into 6/8-3/4 swap time.
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
answered Apr 10 at 13:07
Carl WitthoftCarl Witthoft
9,58721431
9,58721431
8
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
1
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
1
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
3
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
1
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
|
show 2 more comments
8
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
1
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
1
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
3
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
1
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
8
8
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
In this case what changes is the subdivision of the bar, not the total bar duration, so I don't think it really answers the question.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:27
1
1
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
Also, even as notated it shows a single meter change not the additive meter
– Michael Curtis
Apr 10 at 14:40
1
1
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
@MichaelCurtis: Starting at bar 32, the meter changes every measure, though the piece would still work if a director opted to conduct as a straight 6/8 throughout. Even if the director conducts as straight 6/8, however, the violin 2 player should still regard second eighth note in bars like 33, 35, etc. as being off the beat and should thus not accent them more strongly than the first.
– supercat
Apr 10 at 16:22
3
3
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
This example is more general than OP's question. A generalized solution should be acceptable.
– ContextSwitch
Apr 10 at 19:43
1
1
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
@ContextSwitch I think it would be a little misleading to put the second time signature in parentheses in the general case where the total bar duration changes from bar to bar. I definitely prefer Richard's answer for clarity.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 11 at 9:09
|
show 2 more comments
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4
...or write it in either 8/4 or even just 4/4 & accent the appropriate beat, with some kind of similie instruction at the top. I know i'd be far more comfortable thinking in terms of "every 2nd bar accent the 2"
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:07
Could you give an example of how you would write that down @Tetsujin?
– Creynders
Apr 10 at 12:16
I don't have a scoring app here so I can't do it graphically, sorry - but I'd start out just with something like "Treat as though 5/4+3/4, then over the first couple of bars, I'd add > over the relevant '6th note' for the first few bars & write similie in the next bar. [I have to admit I'm treating it more like a rock band forming a groove/feel than an orchestra reading the dots.]
– Tetsujin
Apr 10 at 12:35
Just for the record, it's certainly not unknown to write a new time signature at the start of every bar - e.g. sheetmusicnow.com/products/… Having said that, I've also seen this song notated in 5/4.
– Ian Goldby
Apr 10 at 14:43
8/4 is a good way to go. you don't really have to explain the beat. it would be implied from the music itself.
– Ringo
Apr 10 at 17:39