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2

$begingroup$

Take the following circuit:

If I do a simulation of this circuit I get this graph:

The strange thing is that in the simulator it gives the same voltage sine wave in the circuit, near the voltage source and near the capacitor.

In real circuit is it the same? Even if the wire is long between the voltage source and the capacitor?

voltage capacitor circuit-analysis decoupling-capacitor timing-analysis

share|improve this question

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Real wires have inductance, capacitance, and resistance that you haven't modelled here.
  $endgroup$
  – Hearth
  May 25 at 13:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  but for the vlaues you used, these will most certainly not ever play a role. How can you do a spice simulation without having thought about what a connection in a schematic means? It just literally means "these two points are somehow connected. We model this connection to be loss- and lengthless", Nmaster88.
  $endgroup$
  – Marcus Müller
  May 25 at 13:29
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

Take the following circuit:

If I do a simulation of this circuit I get this graph:

The strange thing is that in the simulator it gives the same voltage sine wave in the circuit, near the voltage source and near the capacitor.

In real circuit is it the same? Even if the wire is long between the voltage source and the capacitor?

voltage capacitor circuit-analysis decoupling-capacitor timing-analysis

share|improve this question

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Real wires have inductance, capacitance, and resistance that you haven't modelled here.
  $endgroup$
  – Hearth
  May 25 at 13:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  but for the vlaues you used, these will most certainly not ever play a role. How can you do a spice simulation without having thought about what a connection in a schematic means? It just literally means "these two points are somehow connected. We model this connection to be loss- and lengthless", Nmaster88.
  $endgroup$
  – Marcus Müller
  May 25 at 13:29
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

Take the following circuit:

If I do a simulation of this circuit I get this graph:

The strange thing is that in the simulator it gives the same voltage sine wave in the circuit, near the voltage source and near the capacitor.

In real circuit is it the same? Even if the wire is long between the voltage source and the capacitor?

voltage capacitor circuit-analysis decoupling-capacitor timing-analysis

share|improve this question

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

share|improve this question

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

edited May 25 at 14:01

JRE

26.1k64886

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

asked May 25 at 13:24

Nmaster88Nmaster88

438

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

7

$begingroup$

What looks like a 'line' running from your voltage source, past your resistors, to your capacitor isn't. It's a NODE. The simulator models it as a single connection point, with a single voltage. You could redraw that circuit by changing the order of the components, making that line wiggly or very long, and the simulator will treat it in exactly the same way.

If you want to describe a physical conductor, perhaps 1m of copper wire 1mm2 area, then as a first order approximation, valid for DC, you can model that as a series resistor of 0.017ohms.

If you want better (more realistic, matching what real wires do at higher frequencies) models, then adding some series inductance, or using a transmission line of a suitable impedance would be the things to do.

We always try to use the simplest model that describes what we need describing, and nothing more.

share|improve this answer

edited May 25 at 13:45

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Yes I think this is what I'm looking for, I will do a model that has some series resistance and inductance.
  $endgroup$
  – Nmaster88
  May 25 at 18:43
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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7

$begingroup$

What looks like a 'line' running from your voltage source, past your resistors, to your capacitor isn't. It's a NODE. The simulator models it as a single connection point, with a single voltage. You could redraw that circuit by changing the order of the components, making that line wiggly or very long, and the simulator will treat it in exactly the same way.

If you want to describe a physical conductor, perhaps 1m of copper wire 1mm2 area, then as a first order approximation, valid for DC, you can model that as a series resistor of 0.017ohms.

If you want better (more realistic, matching what real wires do at higher frequencies) models, then adding some series inductance, or using a transmission line of a suitable impedance would be the things to do.

We always try to use the simplest model that describes what we need describing, and nothing more.

share|improve this answer

edited May 25 at 13:45

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Yes I think this is what I'm looking for, I will do a model that has some series resistance and inductance.
  $endgroup$
  – Nmaster88
  May 25 at 18:43
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

7

$begingroup$

What looks like a 'line' running from your voltage source, past your resistors, to your capacitor isn't. It's a NODE. The simulator models it as a single connection point, with a single voltage. You could redraw that circuit by changing the order of the components, making that line wiggly or very long, and the simulator will treat it in exactly the same way.

If you want to describe a physical conductor, perhaps 1m of copper wire 1mm2 area, then as a first order approximation, valid for DC, you can model that as a series resistor of 0.017ohms.

If you want better (more realistic, matching what real wires do at higher frequencies) models, then adding some series inductance, or using a transmission line of a suitable impedance would be the things to do.

We always try to use the simplest model that describes what we need describing, and nothing more.

share|improve this answer

edited May 25 at 13:45

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Yes I think this is what I'm looking for, I will do a model that has some series resistance and inductance.
  $endgroup$
  – Nmaster88
  May 25 at 18:43
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

What looks like a 'line' running from your voltage source, past your resistors, to your capacitor isn't. It's a NODE. The simulator models it as a single connection point, with a single voltage. You could redraw that circuit by changing the order of the components, making that line wiggly or very long, and the simulator will treat it in exactly the same way.

If you want to describe a physical conductor, perhaps 1m of copper wire 1mm2 area, then as a first order approximation, valid for DC, you can model that as a series resistor of 0.017ohms.

If you want better (more realistic, matching what real wires do at higher frequencies) models, then adding some series inductance, or using a transmission line of a suitable impedance would be the things to do.

We always try to use the simplest model that describes what we need describing, and nothing more.

share|improve this answer

edited May 25 at 13:45

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited May 25 at 13:45

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188

answered May 25 at 13:39

Neil_UKNeil_UK

81.5k285188